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Old 22-02-2012, 19:17   #1
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Need Surveyor in San Francisco for Initial Evaluation

I have been on a boat in San Francisco and am interested in, but there is some dry rot on a plywood board separating a hanging locker from the rear cabin. It appears to be coming from a rail mounted on the deck where the cabin rises. You can see the three bolt holes coming through and some stains on the wood veneer on the hull above the locker.

People have been picking away at the board which flakes away at light pressure when brushing your finger. It's also been surveyed but the buyer backed out afterwards. No one will say what the surveyor said, but it was out of the water. I was told that the buyer simply changed his mind and bought a different boat. I really want to write an offer, but before I pay for a whole survey, I'd like someone to check the basic rot issue for me first. I don't think it's structural and can be fixed easily and that rail on the deck can be removed and resealed, but I want to know before I spend big $$$ going further. If anyone can recommend someone to take a look, for a small fee, I'd appreciate it.
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Old 22-02-2012, 19:27   #2
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Re: Need Surveyor in San Francisco for Initial Evaluation

is it a structural bulkhead thats rotted or part of a locker attached to it.
either way unless extensive it will not effect the sea-worthyness of the vessel.
the 3 bolts are probably a stanchion base that has been leaking slightly.
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Old 22-02-2012, 19:31   #3
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Re: Need Surveyor in San Francisco for Initial Evaluation

I use Francoise Ramsay of Wedlock, Ramsay & Whiting, and recommend her highly.

Wedlock, Ramsay & Whiting ? Northern California Marine Surveyors
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Old 22-02-2012, 19:45   #4
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Re: Need Surveyor in San Francisco for Initial Evaluation

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Originally Posted by atoll View Post
is it a structural bulkhead thats rotted or part of a locker attached to it.
either way unless extensive it will not effect the sea-worthyness of the vessel.
the 3 bolts are probably a stanchion base that has been leaking slightly.
What's your email address, I'll send you a tiny 1mb clip.
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Old 22-02-2012, 19:55   #5
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Re: Need Surveyor in San Francisco for Initial Evaluation

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Originally Posted by SS Little-Devil View Post
What's your email address, I'll send you a tiny 1mb clip.
done see pm
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Old 22-02-2012, 20:13   #6
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Re: Need Surveyor in San Francisco for Initial Evaluation

If you take a look at the first pic, you'll see a porthole in the top left corner. That's the starboard side of the boat and right below that, is the top of a hanging locker. The hanging locker is behind the chart table and separates it from the rear cabin. You can see where the cabin rises up from the locker about half as deep as it actually is. The furthest wall of the hanging locker has the rot.



Here is the chart table:



And this one shows the locker door on the left:



If you open this door, at the top right, the wood is rotten. The locker does not go all the way up, creating a kind of shelf area above it and beneath the top of the cabin. That's where you can see some signs of moisture on the wood above the locker and along the outside by the window, but I really think it's coming from the deck. I think those three bolts are from these rails along the cabin riser:



You can see the grey rail running below the portholes.

Check this video at 3:45 minutes in.

tartan full iPhone - YouTube

The wood just flakes away, but the area above it on the wall at 4:22 seems solid but looks water stained.

In this video, you'll also see the bad paint. It's pretty low res, but this spider cracking is everywhere around the whole boat, and really bad in some places. Obviously cosmetic but it looks like some spots are particularly bad from impacts or simply from the hull rubbing against the fenders when docked.

paint - iPhone.m4v - YouTube

But the paint will not stop me from sailing the boat, and that's something I can do later if I like. I know it's like $10,000 to do, but for the size of the boat, I think if I buy right, I can do that later and recoup it if I later sell in Oz when done the trip.
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Old 22-02-2012, 20:39   #7
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Re: Need Surveyor in San Francisco for Initial Evaluation

the dry rot is caused by damp and lack of ventilation.
the damage to the bulkhead is easily fixed by cutting out the old piece,grinding back the glass laminate and scarfing in a new panel then epoxying back in place.
and reseat and seal the leaking bolts
max $1000 dollar repair.

the bigger concern would be if the decks are cored and water has been entering causing soft patches.

otherwise looks like a clean and well cared for vessel.

crazing on the hull may involve a respray,which it sounds like it allready has had,this can be expensive.
but a good polish can get rid of a lot of imperfections,hard to tell from the video on the actual condition of the hull.
hope this helps
cheers atoll
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Old 22-02-2012, 20:42   #8
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Re: Need Surveyor in San Francisco for Initial Evaluation

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the bigger concern would be if the decks are cored and water has been entering causing soft patches.
+1. And it's likely that this is the case.
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Old 22-02-2012, 21:02   #9
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Re: Need Surveyor in San Francisco for Initial Evaluation

Quote:
Originally Posted by atoll View Post
the dry rot is caused by damp and lack of ventilation.
the damage to the bulkhead is easily fixed by cutting out the old piece,grinding back the glass laminate and scarfing in a new panel then epoxying back in place.
and reseat and seal the leaking bolts
max $1000 dollar repair.

the bigger concern would be if the decks are cored and water has been entering causing soft patches.

otherwise looks like a clean and well cared for vessel.

crazing on the hull may involve a respray,which it sounds like it allready has had,this can be expensive.
but a good polish can get rid of a lot of imperfections,hard to tell from the video on the actual condition of the hull.
hope this helps
cheers atoll
If it's caused by damp it's wet rot! Not dry rot!

Agree, the question is what state the cored decks are in, best get a good surveyor in.

In that second video it looks like you've got awlgrip topsides and the awlgrip is crazed, so they need repainting. It's quite pricy as you'll have to do good prep to do a proper job. Just paid $500 to get just the transom done.
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Old 22-02-2012, 21:09   #10
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Re: Need Surveyor in San Francisco for Initial Evaluation

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If it's caused by damp it's wet rot! Not dry rot!

Agree, the question is what state the cored decks are in, best get a good surveyor in.

In that second video it looks like you've got awlgrip topsides and the awlgrip is crazed, so they need repainting. It's quite pricy as you'll have to do good prep to do a proper job. Just paid $500 to get just the transom done.
There are two main types of wood rotting fungi that attack damp timber in buildings, Wet rots and Dry rot. To buy rot treatment you need to know the difference between a variety of Wet rots and the unique Dry rot fungus, (Dry rot Latin name - Serpula lacrymans). This is because Dry rot can travel across dry areas made of any material to reach untreated wood to eat. Wet rots are confined to the wet areas only. However, areas of Wet rot that dry out can easily turn into Dry rot, as the dampness level falls into the range that Dry rot prefers.

quote Damp and Damp Proofing. Fix Rising Damp,DPC and Damp Proof Course by DIY Damp Proofing).
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Old 23-02-2012, 05:43   #11
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Re: Need Surveyor in San Francisco for Initial Evaluation

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Originally Posted by Bash View Post
I use Francoise Ramsay of Wedlock, Ramsay & Whiting, and recommend her highly.

Wedlock, Ramsay & Whiting ? Northern California Marine Surveyors
I used her as well will use her again if I get the chance.
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Old 23-02-2012, 12:20   #12
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Re: Need Surveyor in San Francisco for Initial Evaluation

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+1. And it's likely that this is the case.
How does a surveyor determine that without opening up the deck?

I'm very frustrated boat shopping since I spend so much time waiting for brokers and boat owners to get back to me. I understand if someone is cruising they can't be reached, and I understand people need time off, but I find it difficult to understand how one can buy a high dollar home so much easier than a boat. Maybe it's because the commissions are higher and the stakes are higher for the homeowner. I'm reluctant to comment more but I am sitting in Hermosa Beach waiting. Ugh.
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Old 23-02-2012, 12:31   #13
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Re: Need Surveyor in San Francisco for Initial Evaluation

I just had a friend recore part of his tartan decks. If it is severe you could easily tell yourself as the decks will have a spongy feel to them if they are rotted out. Tapping with a rubber mallet is the next best step and a moisture meter may show high moisture areas.

My buddy spent 8K recoring a portion of his decks maybe 20 sq ft.
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Old 23-02-2012, 12:39   #14
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Re: Need Surveyor in San Francisco for Initial Evaluation

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How does a surveyor determine that without opening up the deck?

I'm very frustrated boat shopping since I spend so much time waiting for brokers and boat owners to get back to me. I understand if someone is cruising they can't be reached, and I understand people need time off, but I find it difficult to understand how one can buy a high dollar home so much easier than a boat. Maybe it's because the commissions are higher and the stakes are higher for the homeowner. I'm reluctant to comment more but I am sitting in Hermosa Beach waiting. Ugh.
Use of the good, old fashioned mallet is quite telling. My surveyor sounded the entire deck and hull. Moisture meter readings could also tell you something. Observation is the third way, does the deck feel spongy, are there bulges in the glass.

Finally I have heard of plugs being drilled out of the deck and examined. They are only 10mm or so and easily filled back in.
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Old 23-02-2012, 12:46   #15
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Re: Need Surveyor in San Francisco for Initial Evaluation

I don't think the owner will let us drill test holes, but if I make an offer, I'll most certainly send a surveyor out before I travel to the boat. It's in the Bay area and I'm in Hermosa beach. I've been to the bay twice and have already been on this boat. I'm not traveling back unless it passed initial survey. If it did, I would fly out for the haul out and sea trial. I jumped up and down lightly on the decks but didn't feel anything. I imagine the mallet would work better.
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