Need advice on fair pricing for a new production boat

[wincrasher]

I need help. I’m working with a dealer to price up a new Beneteau Oceanis. I’d like to better understand what the typical margins in these things are so I can know if I’m getting a fair deal.

The MSRP of the boat is around $280k. About 1/2 of that is the long list of options selected. The dealer offered $10,000 off that price in the first pass. I was so stunned that I just shut down and went home.

Of course, I want a win-win situation. I expect him to make money. But I don’t want to get a royal screwing either.

If you’ve gone thru this process recently on a NEW boat, what can you tell me? Thanks.

[crankysailor]

How about comparing a very recent (1-3 years old or so) similarly equipped production boat, account for some % depreciation and get a feeling for how far off you would be compared to the price you are getting? Just an idea given the lack of replies you are getting and are likely to get to on this forum...

[Vasco]

It depends on quite a few factors. Some are geography, dealer (whether high volume with large commissioning staff or shoestring operation), whether options are factory or dealer supplied, time of the year, and whether boat is in dealer's inventory or needs to be ordered. One large factor is how good a negotiator you are. Another is whether B is offering any specials.

[kipwrite]

I went through this about two years ago on a new Hanse.

Most of the savings I was able to generate from the purchase was from being very judicious around which options I’d purchase from the factory and which i would be better off doing myself, or a third party, post purchase.

Some items are best done by the factory. Many are simple plug and play options and I found the factory pricing really outrageous on several items. Be careful here.

There was a big factory discount available, concurrent with the fall boat shows that was quite a good value.

As I recall I was able to negotiate another 5% or so on top of everything. Less than I expected.

I’d check a few other dealers, and take your time. Time is your friend.

[wincrasher]

Is it really? Boats ordered today deliver mid-July.

[kipwrite]

Six months sounds about right for a new production boat.

I’d still take some time and get some additional prices. It’s possible the dealer, or the factory, may want to book an order more urgently later in December to fill out their annual order book.

From what I was able to gather, US production boat dealers have somewhere north of 15% margin in new boats, and some of that has to cover their warranty work. Not sure if Beneteau works the same way. So I don’t think you’re going to see a huge discount off MSRP unless the factory has an incentive underway, or, maybe there’s a favorable currency play going on if your boat is made overseas in a weaker currency market, or, they are trying to add some units before year end, or trying to maintain a second or third shift on a particular production line.

Curious if there’s any further insight on dealer
margins.

As to factory margins, I know the Beneteau Group overall has a target margin of 8-8.5% for 2018. Google it. I’d imagine their Oceanis line has healthier margins due to production volumes.

Good luck and let us know how you make out.

[sandrunner]

depreciation doesn't matter in terms of negotiation... what matters is current demand, cost basis, and supply. If you can get 5% you are doing well IMHO, more often than negotiate add ons (dealer fit).

Right now inventory is tight due to hurricanes/insurance payouts I hear.

[Polux]

For Bavaria, if you are buying in Europe the best deal will be probably with Yates Allemanes in Palma de Maiorca. If you are going to sail the boat on the Med it can be just a nice deal.

On this time of the year I would say that if you buy there you can get a 9% discount. I don't know how many boats they are selling now but they used to be the biggest Bavaria dealer selling something like 200 boats a year. Nice guys too, a family business.

[GARRYOWEN]

wincrasher

Far less information on this than on the RV forums.....I have a very good idea of what RV pricing is on normal units, ..... it's at least 10% and can be as much as 22% or more (with EXCEPTIONS of course, i don't want to get into that here because that's rv's and we are here for boats)

I have been trying to determine what the deal is on boats but after a few months just can't get a grip on it....since there isn't much talk of it perhaps this 5% to 10% mentioned here is the max....

Also, I'm surpised at the lack of discussion on the topic (new price not used price)

[wincrasher]

Just to report back, I was able to get 9% off and placed my order in early December. This will be a 2019 model boat, delivered in late July. Placing my order locked in the price before the winter price increase of 1-2% plus the new model year price increase as well (3%?). Also, if there are improvements in any of the spec equipment, then I get that too. I think this deal is fair, but not exemplary. Included in the price is $12k for commissioning, which normally I would expect would be built into their margin, not an extra charge. But thats the way it is I guess.

The downside is if there is any decontenting on the new model year. I can make changes to my order up till about 6 weeks from production. I figure if they make any detrimental changes to the equipment list, I can always delete those options. But I don't expect much really - there is talk of them upgrading the inverter and possibly the sail drive, so those would be pluses in my view.

I had to put 10% down to place my order. This is not refundable if I cancel. 85% is due on shipment from the factory. The last 5% is due at delivery (post commissioning).

[JPA Cate]

wincrasher,

I apologize for coming late to this discussion. At this point, I strongly urge you to have a good professional surveyor survey the new boat before you accept it.

Ann

[rourkeh]

Most new production boats in the $200k - $300k range have a dealer invoice price of 20%-30% off of full retail. This does not include factory to dealer incentive discounts, such as volume order discounts received at dealer meetings, or seasonal discounts used to increase production.
You decide what is reasonable, probably 10% - 15% is what I would shoot for.
With the current economy being so strong, most manufacturers and dealers are not having too much trouble selling their inventory. Add to that all the replacements required from the owners that lost boats in the hurricanes and the French manufacturers production lines are going to be running at 110% for years.

[Eleuthera 2014]

Given the number of wrecked yachts in the Caribbean last fall, do not be surprized that new boat prices harden up...

Given the extra demand, the builders will demand more moolah for their boats.

Supply and demand.. ex: Lagoon has sold all production until 2022...

Good luck

[GARRYOWEN]

Originally Posted by wincrasher

I had to put 10% down to place my order. This is not refundable if I cancel. 85% is due on shipment from the factory. The last 5% is due at delivery (post commissioning).

Thanks for the update....!

[BandB]

Originally Posted by wincrasher

I need help. I’m working with a dealer to price up a new Beneteau Oceanis. I’d like to better understand what the typical margins in these things are so I can know if I’m getting a fair deal.

The MSRP of the boat is around $280k. About 1/2 of that is the long list of options selected. The dealer offered $10,000 off that price in the first pass. I was so stunned that I just shut down and went home.

Of course, I want a win-win situation. I expect him to make money. But I don’t want to get a royal screwing either.

If you’ve gone thru this process recently on a NEW boat, what can you tell me? Thanks.

Every new boat varies based on the builder and the sales set up. In the case of Beneteau, you're talking traditional stocking dealers so they get larger margins than if it was a broker setup. I would expect far more than the $10,000 discount. I do not know the Beneteau dealer pricing for certain, but most of the time with dealer setups, the dealer gets around 30% off. With broker setups, they're typically only working with 10%.

The dealers target a gross margin of at least 20% and typically their minimum is 15%. So assuming a 30% discount and aiming for a 20% gross margin. The dealers cost would be $196k and their minimum selling price would be targeted at $245k. As a buyer I'd target $245-250k. A 10% discount would put you at $252k.