Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 21-11-2017, 07:04   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 44
Need advice on fair pricing for a new production boat

I need help. Iím working with a dealer to price up a new Beneteau Oceanis. Iíd like to better understand what the typical margins in these things are so I can know if Iím getting a fair deal.

The MSRP of the boat is around $280k. About 1/2 of that is the long list of options selected. The dealer offered $10,000 off that price in the first pass. I was so stunned that I just shut down and went home.

Of course, I want a win-win situation. I expect him to make money. But I donít want to get a royal screwing either.

If youíve gone thru this process recently on a NEW boat, what can you tell me? Thanks.
__________________

wincrasher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-11-2017, 10:24   #2
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 233
Re: Need advice on fair pricing for a new production boat

How about comparing a very recent (1-3 years old or so) similarly equipped production boat, account for some % depreciation and get a feeling for how far off you would be compared to the price you are getting? Just an idea given the lack of replies you are getting and are likely to get to on this forum...
__________________

crankysailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-11-2017, 10:40   #3
Senior Cruiser
 
Vasco's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Toronto
Boat: CS36Merlin, "La Belle Aurore" Ben393 "Breathless"
Posts: 7,322
Re: Need advice on fair pricing for a new production boat

It depends on quite a few factors. Some are geography, dealer (whether high volume with large commissioning staff or shoestring operation), whether options are factory or dealer supplied, time of the year, and whether boat is in dealer's inventory or needs to be ordered. One large factor is how good a negotiator you are. Another is whether B is offering any specials.
__________________
Rick I
Toronto in summer, Bahamas in winter.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/beneteau393/
Vasco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-11-2017, 10:54   #4
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 22
Re: Need advice on fair pricing for a new production boat

I went through this about two years ago on a new Hanse.

Most of the savings I was able to generate from the purchase was from being very judicious around which options Iíd purchase from the factory and which i would be better off doing myself, or a third party, post purchase.

Some items are best done by the factory. Many are simple plug and play options and I found the factory pricing really outrageous on several items. Be careful here.

There was a big factory discount available, concurrent with the fall boat shows that was quite a good value.

As I recall I was able to negotiate another 5% or so on top of everything. Less than I expected.

Iíd check a few other dealers, and take your time. Time is your friend.
kipwrite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-11-2017, 12:37   #5
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 44
Re: Need advice on fair pricing for a new production boat

Is it really? Boats ordered today deliver mid-July.
wincrasher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-11-2017, 17:36   #6
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 22
Re: Need advice on fair pricing for a new production boat

Six months sounds about right for a new production boat.

Iíd still take some time and get some additional prices. Itís possible the dealer, or the factory, may want to book an order more urgently later in December to fill out their annual order book.

From what I was able to gather, US production boat dealers have somewhere north of 15% margin in new boats, and some of that has to cover their warranty work. Not sure if Beneteau works the same way. So I donít think youíre going to see a huge discount off MSRP unless the factory has an incentive underway, or, maybe thereís a favorable currency play going on if your boat is made overseas in a weaker currency market, or, they are trying to add some units before year end, or trying to maintain a second or third shift on a particular production line.

Curious if thereís any further insight on dealer
margins.

As to factory margins, I know the Beneteau Group overall has a target margin of 8-8.5% for 2018. Google it. Iíd imagine their Oceanis line has healthier margins due to production volumes.

Good luck and let us know how you make out.
kipwrite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-11-2017, 18:20   #7
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Casco Bay, ME and the Philippines
Boat: '90 Jeanneau Voyage 12.5
Posts: 59
Re: Need advice on fair pricing for a new production boat

depreciation doesn't matter in terms of negotiation... what matters is current demand, cost basis, and supply. If you can get 5% you are doing well IMHO, more often than negotiate add ons (dealer fit).

Right now inventory is tight due to hurricanes/insurance payouts I hear.
sandrunner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-11-2017, 10:46   #8
Registered User
 
Polux's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Portugal/Med
Boat: Comet 41s
Posts: 6,076
Re: Need advice on fair pricing for a new production boat

For Bavaria, if you are buying in Europe the best deal will be probably with Yates Allemanes in Palma de Maiorca. If you are going to sail the boat on the Med it can be just a nice deal.

On this time of the year I would say that if you buy there you can get a 9% discount. I don't know how many boats they are selling now but they used to be the biggest Bavaria dealer selling something like 200 boats a year. Nice guys too, a family business.
Polux is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2018, 20:26   #9
Registered User
 
GARRYOWEN's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 48
Re: Need advice on fair pricing for a new production boat

wincrasher

Far less information on this than on the RV forums.....I have a very good idea of what RV pricing is on normal units, ..... it's at least 10% and can be as much as 22% or more (with EXCEPTIONS of course, i don't want to get into that here because that's rv's and we are here for boats)

I have been trying to determine what the deal is on boats but after a few months just can't get a grip on it....since there isn't much talk of it perhaps this 5% to 10% mentioned here is the max....

Also, I'm surpised at the lack of discussion on the topic (new price not used price)
GARRYOWEN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2018, 20:48   #10
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 44
Re: Need advice on fair pricing for a new production boat

Just to report back, I was able to get 9% off and placed my order in early December. This will be a 2019 model boat, delivered in late July. Placing my order locked in the price before the winter price increase of 1-2% plus the new model year price increase as well (3%?). Also, if there are improvements in any of the spec equipment, then I get that too. I think this deal is fair, but not exemplary. Included in the price is $12k for commissioning, which normally I would expect would be built into their margin, not an extra charge. But thats the way it is I guess.

The downside is if there is any decontenting on the new model year. I can make changes to my order up till about 6 weeks from production. I figure if they make any detrimental changes to the equipment list, I can always delete those options. But I don't expect much really - there is talk of them upgrading the inverter and possibly the sail drive, so those would be pluses in my view.

I had to put 10% down to place my order. This is not refundable if I cancel. 85% is due on shipment from the factory. The last 5% is due at delivery (post commissioning).
wincrasher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2018, 01:30   #11
Moderator
 
JPA Cate's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: aboard, cruising in Australia
Boat: Sayer 46' Solent rig sloop
Posts: 13,705
Re: Need advice on fair pricing for a new production boat

wincrasher,

I apologize for coming late to this discussion. At this point, I strongly urge you to have a good professional surveyor survey the new boat before you accept it.

Ann
__________________
Who scorns the calm has forgotten the storm.
JPA Cate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2018, 04:23   #12
Marine Service Provider
 
rourkeh's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Northern Caribbean
Boat: Cheoy Lee, 44 Cutter. Dolce Far Niente
Posts: 475
Re: Need advice on fair pricing for a new production boat

Most new production boats in the $200k - $300k range have a dealer invoice price of 20%-30% off of full retail. This does not include factory to dealer incentive discounts, such as volume order discounts received at dealer meetings, or seasonal discounts used to increase production.
You decide what is reasonable, probably 10% - 15% is what I would shoot for.
With the current economy being so strong, most manufacturers and dealers are not having too much trouble selling their inventory. Add to that all the replacements required from the owners that lost boats in the hurricanes and the French manufacturers production lines are going to be running at 110% for years.
rourkeh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2018, 08:28   #13
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Earth
Boat: Amel Super Maramu 53 ft
Posts: 526
Re: Need advice on fair pricing for a new production boat

Given the number of wrecked yachts in the Caribbean last fall, do not be surprized that new boat prices harden up...

Given the extra demand, the builders will demand more moolah for their boats.

Supply and demand.. ex: Lagoon has sold all production until 2022...

Good luck
Eleuthera 2014 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-01-2018, 19:05   #14
Registered User
 
GARRYOWEN's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 48
Re: Need advice on fair pricing for a new production boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by wincrasher View Post

I had to put 10% down to place my order. This is not refundable if I cancel. 85% is due on shipment from the factory. The last 5% is due at delivery (post commissioning).
Thanks for the update....!
GARRYOWEN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-01-2018, 19:25   #15
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Paradise
Boat: Various
Posts: 2,424
Re: Need advice on fair pricing for a new production boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by wincrasher View Post
I need help. Iím working with a dealer to price up a new Beneteau Oceanis. Iíd like to better understand what the typical margins in these things are so I can know if Iím getting a fair deal.

The MSRP of the boat is around $280k. About 1/2 of that is the long list of options selected. The dealer offered $10,000 off that price in the first pass. I was so stunned that I just shut down and went home.

Of course, I want a win-win situation. I expect him to make money. But I donít want to get a royal screwing either.

If youíve gone thru this process recently on a NEW boat, what can you tell me? Thanks.
Every new boat varies based on the builder and the sales set up. In the case of Beneteau, you're talking traditional stocking dealers so they get larger margins than if it was a broker setup. I would expect far more than the $10,000 discount. I do not know the Beneteau dealer pricing for certain, but most of the time with dealer setups, the dealer gets around 30% off. With broker setups, they're typically only working with 10%.

The dealers target a gross margin of at least 20% and typically their minimum is 15%. So assuming a 30% discount and aiming for a 20% gross margin. The dealers cost would be $196k and their minimum selling price would be targeted at $245k. As a buyer I'd target $245-250k. A 10% discount would put you at $252k.
__________________

BandB is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
boat

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New Boat Pricing FLH91 Monohull Sailboats 3 23-10-2017 15:29
Chaparral - New Boat Pricing Policy ? TD Charleston Powered Boats 1 17-05-2017 17:12
Boat Pricing (How Much Should a Boat Really Cost?) Panamax. Meets & Greets 21 17-09-2015 13:45
Sunsail Pricing Fair for First Night of Charter ??? JoeGo General Sailing Forum 3 26-01-2012 14:31
Need Pricing on New Boat Engine Daddy's Dream Monohull Sailboats 20 22-09-2005 19:14



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:34.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.