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Old 07-09-2012, 17:22   #31
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Originally Posted by rolandgilbert99

If you are right this is rather unfortunate! Many good boatbuilders in the US are building quality boats with state of the art designs and manufacturing.
European boats are built like cars on an assembly line and some decisions on design and construction are more related to profit and productivity than seaworthyness.
I grew up in France and when the Beneteau and Jeanneau hit the North American market in the 80's, I was amazed by the features they were offering and like most people I was dreaming of one of these boats.
But after they took a great share of the North American market, they reduced the thickness of the fibreglass, the size of the stays, the quality of the hardware declined and everything started to look good, but cheap.

These builders are concentrating on features, look and comfort for the dock rather than for world cruising in security.

Even Hunter, they were very inspired by the european style designs and features, but they haven't produced boats of such poor quality as the French boats.

It is really sad to see that people associate quality with the european manufacturing, it is not true anymore. Same goes for cars and other products from Europe. Boatbuilders in America have a niche market with luxurious and comfortable quality boats, such as the Morris, Hylas, etc. Their standards are much higher than Beneteau and Jeanneau (same company anyways) with their assembly lines. Take it from a Frenchman!
This is just nonsense. Group beneteau does well because it build a good boat at a competitive price. In doing so it reaches what passes for a mass market In the boat sector. Their boats regularly circumnavigate. They are well built have the same engines and deck hardware as HR malo etc. in fact the Jeaneau performance line has top range Harkin gear,arguably better then most " custom" builders

As for European auto makers. In a world of collapsing car makers , the japs are dead, the us auto industry had to be resurrected . Funny how German car makers have increased market share. Why. Because te product is excellent.

Having sailed hunters, I'd take a beneteau any day.

It is widely stated that beneteau built its market share through the charter market. The fact is the charter market is a small proportion of beneteaus business. Private sales are the dominant one.

North american builders have focused on a retro style conservative high quality niche. Even then most of the builders have failed. It's not helped by the fact that pet capita the US market is small for sailboats. The US is not a sailing nation.

Dave
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Old 07-09-2012, 17:29   #32
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Originally Posted by Sonadora

Same could be said of the quirky Oz/New Zealand/UK/French/Swedish/Finnish/Dutch/ect. brands
Very few US sailboat manufacturer have any international presence and are rarely seen in the hands of non us sailers. Partly this reflects the elitist aspect of yachting in the US. While small powerboats reign supreme, and as a result US companies dominate the worldwide small sportsboat market, yachting in the US is a minority amongst boat owners, unlike europe where the reverse is true. Hence due to the large domestic market, Europe dominates the yacht market. so of you want a popular brand it's going to come from that t stable.


The " blue water" boat nonsense is just that, nonsense. The vast majority of modern production cruisers are well capable of crossing oceans. I know I've delivered many.

Dave
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Old 07-09-2012, 18:28   #33
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Re: Need Advice on a Blue Water Cruiser

Hi,

My take:

"We want to sail from us/caribbean through the panama canal cross the pacific to australia. We have 2 years to accomplish this magnificent peace of earth."

> Skip Carib and Panama part, get a boat in Cal and sail from there. You can always return to the Carib when you retire.

"a known brand one that is easy to sell when you want it."

> A brand will not sell your boat. A combo of brand and GOOD PRICE may. Go for something middle of the road that appeals to many potential buyers. An out and out 'bluewater' boat is not easy to sell. A well built mass produced boat is. If you are selling in Aus, check what boats Aus market wants.

Cheers,
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Old 07-09-2012, 18:51   #34
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Re: Need Advice on a Blue Water Cruiser

Sir: Maybe I missed something here: do you know how to sail? If so, what experience do you have? Might be relevant questions since you are putting your familys' lives on the line .Just a thought.
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Old 07-09-2012, 18:58   #35
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Re: Need Advice on a Blue Water Cruiser

Listen to Boracay. Things in Ozz are starting to turn downhill.....by the time you get there your boat might not be the most sort after article.
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Old 07-09-2012, 19:21   #36
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Re: Need Advice on a Blue Water Cruiser

I'd spend money on chartering for 2,3 weeks first... Have you done that?
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Old 07-09-2012, 20:59   #37
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Interesting to read that one of our team believes that Hylas are American made.

The fact is that they are not. They are made in Taiwan

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Old 07-09-2012, 21:45   #38
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Re: Need Advice on a Blue Water Cruiser

Island Packet. Low upkeep, good resale, minimal teak compared with Hans Christian, baba etc.
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Old 08-09-2012, 05:45   #39
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Re: Need Advice on a Blue Water Cruiser

Now I have just seen two boats being imported by Aus sailors from the EU. They were both mass production EU paper boats. So, at least when EU boats are concerned, that's probably what Aussies want. Now from the US there will be possibly a similar trend?

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Old 08-09-2012, 07:15   #40
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Re: Need Advice on a Blue Water Cruiser

Quote:
Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
This is just nonsense. Group beneteau does well because it build a good boat at a competitive price. In doing so it reaches what passes for a mass market In the boat sector. Their boats regularly circumnavigate. They are well built have the same engines and deck hardware as HR malo etc. in fact the Jeaneau performance line has top range Harkin gear,arguably better then most " custom" builders

As for European auto makers. In a world of collapsing car makers , the japs are dead, the us auto industry had to be resurrected . Funny how German car makers have increased market share. Why. Because te product is excellent.

Having sailed hunters, I'd take a beneteau any day.

It is widely stated that beneteau built its market share through the charter market. The fact is the charter market is a small proportion of beneteaus business. Private sales are the dominant one.

North american builders have focused on a retro style conservative high quality niche. Even then most of the builders have failed. It's not helped by the fact that pet capita the US market is small for sailboats. The US is not a sailing nation.

Dave
Well, you have your opinion and I have mine. It is hard for people sometimes to admit that what used to be is not anymore. There are still millions of Mercedes and Volvos sold on the premises of what they used to be for robustness and security. Guess what, they are less robust nowadays than most Japanese cars. People have still in mind that American cars are poor quality, when actually it is not true for some builders and models, I personally kept a US built car for close to 300,000 kms on cold and snowy Canadian roads for over 10 years with minimal repairs.
This could be argued for ever. Yes Beneteaus are sailing around the world, and so are most of the boats manufactured in the US as well. But the difference is travelling trouble free or with an open tool box. And my personal experience and the one of many of my friends with these boats has made up my opinion on these brands.
Thank you anyways for bringing up your opinion to me and the rest of the members, every opinion is worth being exposed here and regardless of what these boats are worth for us, the value in OZ is what interested the OP.
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Old 08-09-2012, 08:00   #41
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Re: Need Advice on a Blue Water Cruiser

The Beneteau 473 has a good reputation both in the charter business and as cruiser. I took a look at several in the BVI and they impressed me as being much more solid than similar models from other manufacturers. I ended up getting a bit bigger boat but am doing the same thing with a short jaunt across several of the 7 seas and chose Jeanneau.
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Old 08-09-2012, 16:27   #42
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Re: Need Advice on a Blue Water Cruiser

If, as it sounds, you are seeking a boat that willtransport you and your family safely and comfortably from the US, through the Caribbean and the canal , then on to Oz where you plan to sell it, why spend all that money on a boat when you can get a great boat, built like a battleship, with wondeerful accommodations for about HALF of your budget. You could then put a few thousand into upgrading equipment, have a nice, deep cruising kitty and arrive home with money in the bank! There are SO many boats out ther that will fill your needs (I'm especially partial to the CSY 44 "Walkovers" because of their family-friendly layouts and their bullet-proof construction ... not to mention that I also have one for sale) Its just a thought, but that is certainly what I would do.
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Old 08-09-2012, 18:31   #43
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Re: Need Advice on a Blue Water Cruiser

There is a boat here that will hit the market soon named. Terre austrailia. 42' catalina watermaker genset windvane dinghy solar etc... Owner just bought a cat and will put on the market upon return to the states from aus.
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Old 09-09-2012, 02:27   #44
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Island Packets with full keels and cutter rigged are great American made cruising boats that are both roomy and safe, also seem to hold their value regardless of the market.

The cutter rig gives you sail options for heavy weather and the full keel will come in handy for heaving-to. Light air sailing is not as bad as some folks will tell you. You will not mind being a little slower in light air after a few days of being in heavy weather and keeping your family safe.

The systems and tankage were designed to go cruising, and the bow set-up to to carry and deploy your anchors. They have great finish inside and out, with gel coat that looks good for years.

My wife and I live aboard and cruised for five years on an Island Packet 350 from the Great Lakes of North America to Trinidad. We used a reefed main and Yankee in heavy weather and were never worried about going 1/2 knot slower in light air. Check out the Seven Seas Cruising Association list of members boats to see what other cruising families are sailing for ideas. I have seen that list on the this forum on a previous thread. We sold our IP for almost what we paid for it in two week when our cruise was finished. Never met an Island Packet owner that did not love their boat. You may have to buy a 1990's boat to met your budget.

We now sail and live aboard a Manta 42 catamaran and love it, but a cruising catamaran built for blue water may be a little more money than you want to spend. Shopping for a new/used boat can be great fun, enjoy it. Rich
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Old 09-09-2012, 04:07   #45
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Re: Need Advice on a Blue Water Cruiser

Wow i didnt know that i'll provoke an e.u u.s argument here.....
thanks for your thoughts, I got some boat names out here

I forgot to say that my wife and me have some sailing experiance with and without our kids(9,7,1 year old).
We have crossed the indean ocean from o.z to sri lanka,done one transatlantic crossing and sailed/raced on mono / multihulls.

we have looked at marvelous boats out there
island packets,c.s.y,passport hylass .....but we think that buying a 30 year old boat will make us mechanics,plumbers,blacksmiths...
we want to get a newer boat but the new boats are very light constructed (we know they cross oceans but the feeling is different ) plus they dont have enough water/fuel.

any Ideas other than the catalina morgan 440 ?

we love the aft cockpitt for our family.

shai
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