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Old 11-04-2016, 09:28   #16
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Re: NADA value on a Catalina 22

Try Catalina Direct: to get an idea on the cost of replacing standing rigging, sails, rudder etc.

I picked up a 87 in above average condition for $4000 last spring in Ca. The seller had it on the market for at least 6 months and dropped the price 1800.00 when I bought her.

I didn't need to replace anything but cosmetic parts. Rub rail, Teak with starboard, and running rigging. That being said, if this boat needed running rigging and sails, the purchase price of $4000 would have been a little high.

BTW sailboatowners has a forum page just for Catalina 22's
SailboatOwners.com Forums

And catalina22.org has history and technical info.

I hope this helps
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Old 11-04-2016, 09:56   #17
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Re: NADA value on a Catalina 22

The value of any sailboat under 25 feet is, to me, more about supply/demand than NADA values. There are literally thousands of production sailboats for sale across the country with very motivated sellers. This is because it is generally an entry level boat to sailing that will be used on inland lakes, bays and rivers in reasonably protected areas. And, typical ownership is short and will either be sold within a few years or relegated to your backyard boatyard or storage area. Regardless of book/asking prices, I believe a quality boat with good sails, structurally sound, with perhaps a kicker can be purchased for around $2500. or less. Ages is less important, of course, than condition. If you take your time, there are plenty of deals on the market. A good example is a relatively new Catalina 22 with a trailer we have driven by for the last 8 years in a local boatyard that started at $7995. and is now priced at $1995. Granted, it is for sale at a powerboat marina but there must be an abundance of these boats nationwide. Take your time. There's no rush. You'll find a good boat at a very good price. Good luck and safe sailing. P.S. This is a boat that you'll more likely find for sale by a private owner or as a favor to a loyal customer in a boatyard.
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Old 11-04-2016, 10:47   #18
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Re: NADA value on a Catalina 22

NADA is important for two reasons in the US.

1. This is the amount the banks use for financing. Most banks will use this as the 100% value mark and loan based upon that. Most are not smart enough to underwrite in any other way.

2. This is the amount that insurance companies use for the basis of Actual Cash Value. Again, they don't have the expertise to manually underwrite outside of an actuarial table to determine premium based upon the amount of over-insurance you are asking for versus risk.

Unless the boat is in below market condition, NADA will almost always be lower than the actual value of a boat. Values derived from NADA come from various sources and primarily what a boat sold for, not what someone is asking for it. NADA uses calculations that are not truly indicative of the true value of a boat, primarily on equipment basis. Example might be a sink and faucet that is standard equipment, but a selection option for price basis. Add the option regardless of whether it was standard or not. On older boats that are no longer being sold or reported through brokers, they use a little more complicated math based upon a sliding depreciation scale that can completely lose touch with the actual market value of a specific make/model.

Regarding Insurance. The value of a boat can be anything you say it is, but may be substantiated by a survey if the value is higher than NADA or BUC. The cost of insurance rises significantly the higher "Agreed Value" is from what they factor as the "Actual Cash Value."


That being said, a Catalina 22 will run the gamut from $1500 to $8K and is highly based upon condition and equipment as well as location.
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Old 11-04-2016, 11:05   #19
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Re: NADA value on a Catalina 22

I owned a Catalina 22 for 10 years, and constantly upgraded it.

Bought it for a song...$3K....in excellent but spartan condition.

First thing I did was fit her with Lewmar self-tailing winches to make it easier to singlehand. Probably the only Cat22 around with ST winches :-)

Re wired her, new panel, new battery setup, new radio, stereo, etc., etc.

She was beautiful and a joy to sail.

BTW, I believe the Catalina 22 is the one-design with the most production boats....over 17,000 I believe. Catalina Direct is GREAT for spare parts.

I believe a Cat 22 in really good shape with a trailer, pop-top, good sails, good outboard, etc. for about $5K would be a good deal.

Bill
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Old 11-04-2016, 12:24   #20
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Re: NADA value on a Catalina 22

Quote:
Originally Posted by dcs02d View Post
I'm looking to buy my first sail boat (as soon as I unload my power boat

I know a bit about motors and trailers so I can value those accurately and I've looked at a few boats so that I can more or less tell the difference between great shape and a rotting POS

Is the nada value on the catalina 22s fairly representative of market value?
the value of any boat, or anything, is what the seller will accept. the market rules. always has. always will.
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Old 11-04-2016, 12:27   #21
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Re: NADA value on a Catalina 22

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Originally Posted by jrbogie View Post
the value of any boat, or anything, is what the seller will accept. the market rules. always has. always will.
And equally important what a willing buyer will pay.

And what you may pay and what I may pay are likely very different in this kind of market.
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Old 11-04-2016, 12:31   #22
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Re: NADA value on a Catalina 22

"Another issue with guides is that for most boat models too few are sold to give a decent market value. Guides that value used cars can be more accurate because there are many more of a given model being sold."
For most boats that is quite true. But for Catalina 22s the guide prices are somewhat more reliable because there are a lot of Catalina 22s around and changing hands.
Also, a Catalina 22 will be easier to sell - for the same reason.
A plus for Catalina 22s is that Catalina Yachts is still in business and is, I think, one of the two or three largest boat manufacturers (in number of boats) in the world and is still in existance. That helps raise resale values, good when you want to move on to something else, but hurts a little when buying.
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Old 11-04-2016, 12:36   #23
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Re: NADA value on a Catalina 22

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Originally Posted by Dave Lochner View Post
And equally important what a willing buyer will pay.

And what you may pay and what I may pay are likely very different in this kind of market.

obviously. but what you or i are willing to pay is of no consequence unless the seller accepts the offer. he alone has the final say over the market in that area.
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Old 11-04-2016, 12:49   #24
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Re: NADA value on a Catalina 22

However, in answer to your question, NADA's data reflects what dealers have reported as actual sales over the past year with regards to boats. The data is accurate to that degree and does fairly reflect what a boat is worth; and more importantly, what a marine insurance company will insure it for, a boat lender will judge its value to be; and what you should consider a fair price for the boat being sold.
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Old 11-04-2016, 12:58   #25
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Re: NADA value on a Catalina 22

When the price of the boat goes to the C22 level, brokers/dealers usually don't waste their time selling them, I wouldn't expect the NADA data to be accurate.
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Old 11-04-2016, 13:16   #26
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Re: NADA value on a Catalina 22

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When the price of the boat goes to the C22 level, brokers/dealers usually don't waste their time selling them, I wouldn't expect the NADA data to be accurate.
Good point. C22 is the kind of boat you find at YMCA auctions. However, dealers do sell "cheap" boats and enter their sales data into the nada database. Remember, from a dealer's point of view a cheap sales now may lead to a more expensive, and profitable, sale later as the customer moves up the food chain. No successful dealer is fussy about a sale. Each penny adds up over time. Btdt.
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Old 11-04-2016, 13:43   #27
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Re: NADA value on a Catalina 22

Also don't forget the trailer if you are going to use it to take the boat any distance. Real easy to forget about that check out the boat. Then you find the trailer is crap. If you have to pull it any distance, a tandem axle trailer is really nice.
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Old 11-04-2016, 14:04   #28
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Re: NADA value on a Catalina 22

Keep in mind nada is not just using soldboats data. They are also using a depreciation formula that the banks and insurance companies approve of. Where they get it wrong is when factors change for a particular make/model. When they get that wrong, they tend to level It for a few years until it gets closer to reality, but I have yet to see them raise a value to true regardless of when soldboats tells a different story.
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Old 11-04-2016, 14:25   #29
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Re: NADA value on a Catalina 22

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Originally Posted by reed1v View Post
Good point. C22 is the kind of boat you find at YMCA auctions. However, dealers do sell "cheap" boats and enter their sales data into the nada database. Remember, from a dealer's point of view a cheap sales now may lead to a more expensive, and profitable, sale later as the customer moves up the food chain. No successful dealer is fussy about a sale. Each penny adds up over time. Btdt.
Reed,
Without any disparagement to Catalinas, which I have always believed are well-built boats for the money, your first line above is a classic. However, when I sold my first boat (25 feet) many years ago, several brokers, in spite of its pristine shape, were reluctant to broker the boat. I finally found a willing broker who agreed to sell it but he did nothing to market the boat other than a one line listing. After the agreement lapsed, I listed it on boats.com and sold it to the second person who looked at the boat for full asking price. There are always exceptions, but my personal opinion based on past history is that very few boat brokers are strong salesman. They always seem to gravitate towards the path of least resistance. You don't need a broker to give your boat away. However, the good ones certainly would agree with your later assessment. Good luck and safe sailing.
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Old 11-04-2016, 15:45   #30
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Re: NADA value on a Catalina 22

Am not disparaging the Cats. Was friends with Butler when he started up his boat company. Unlike a lot of small sailboats, the cats have survived a long long time. Truth is, they do wind up in non profit summer auctions partly because they are so old, many dealers would advise the seller to donate rather than sell(agree with you), and they are easy to tow to the local YMCA.

Cats are good, all around pleasure boats for the family. Good value for the money. Still are. Plus easy to rebuild, repair, and refurbish.
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