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12-11-2017, 13:52
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#16
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Senior Cruiser
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: puget sound washington
Boat: 1968 Islander bahama 24 hull 182, 1963 columbia 29 defender. hull # 60
Posts: 12,159
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Re: Mistery 12 foot boat
Dan post a couple pictures of the curler system and describe what appears to be wrong. We will see what we can do to help you.
__________________
Non illigitamus carborundum
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12-11-2017, 14:49
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#17
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: SC
Boat: None,build the one shown of glass, had many from 6' to 48'.
Posts: 10,208
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Re: Mistery 12 foot boat
Quote:
Originally Posted by floatsam
No. Not a mystery anymore.
But still an enigma.
There just isn't any readily available info on her.
I will just have to assume that the rudder and dagger are correct (95 % certainty) and fix their small sins. Epoxy is your friend.
Then make my own DIY fix on the jib furler.
Oh and get someone to reproduce the sails.
The main is still good enough for a few outing me think.
Can't wait to put her in the water.
Daniel
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If you get a new sail have the logo and no. put on it. I think a no. of small class boats were regional. I know I remember Star boats and I think Lightning classes.
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12-11-2017, 18:18
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#18
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 24
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Re: Mistery 12 foot boat
Quote:
Originally Posted by newhaul
Dan post a couple pictures of the curler system and describe what appears to be wrong. We will see what we can do to help you.
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Roger that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cadence
If you get a new sail have the logo and no. put on it. I think a no. of small class boats were regional. I know I remember Star boats and I think Lightning classes.
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I intend to.
I like old stuff. Like to make them era correct if not authentic. If I make sense here.
Not too knowledgeable here on the subject but I think just having sails made will cost a small bundle (Probably more than I paid for the boat) and I will make myself afford the small bundle more to make me proud from far away. Of course if they want 2 arms and 2 legs....I will have to say no.
Here is my jib furler:
And the top of the foil:
To my untrained eye it looks like PVC.
One owner long ago dropped the forestay ant the rim of the bobbin broke then he broke it some more. Then he didn't care anymore and drop-broke it all the way around.
Then he lost the thingamabob that stays fix to the forestay to guide the line in and out.
I have a fair idea on how to recycle/rebuild the current furler.....Should work. No hurry though the jib is in tatter. Someone left it in the wind.....like a whole winter or something.....Maybe in disgust after he broke the bobbin. IDK.
Daniel
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13-11-2017, 01:36
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#19
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Ladner, Delta, British Columbia Canada.
Boat: Coast 30
Posts: 374
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Re: Mistery 12 foot boat
During the sailing dinghy era of decades age, Class boats were usually given a number by the manufacturer, Especially those normally sold as a plywood kit.
in which case the mainsail arrived with the class in insignia and boat number already on the sail.
The sail maker I used to use in Bosham (Rockall sails) has apparently closed down. I take note that some sailors in that local are mentioning sailmaker sailmaking sail repair My point being that I would expect any English sail maker to be familiar with the design and dimensions of an ARROW dinghy and perhaps happy to quote you a price.
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13-11-2017, 08:04
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#20
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 24
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Re: Mistery 12 foot boat
Quote:
Originally Posted by coastalexplorer
During the sailing dinghy era of decades age, Class boats were usually given a number by the manufacturer, Especially those normally sold as a plywood kit.
in which case the mainsail arrived with the class in insignia and boat number already on the sail.
The sail maker I used to use in Bosham (Rockall sails) has apparently closed down. I take note that some sailors in that local are mentioning sailmaker sailmaking sail repair My point being that I would expect any English sail maker to be familiar with the design and dimensions of an ARROW dinghy and perhaps happy to quote you a price.
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Englishmen and boats go together well .
Real life is getting a bit in the way of interesting and fun.
I like the idea that there is a repository of all sails somewhere for sailmakers to access. I also like to think that the sails were basically "Off the self" and that some knowledgeable person would look at them and say "That looks exactly like the sails of a "Insert Common Ordinary Dinghy Name". IDK.
It looks like the boat builder when under after a short run.
I emailed two sailmakers prior to finding out that it was the Arrow 12 and ..... Never got a reply. I am guessing that reproducing a sail is costly, small boat, small fry owner, therefore cheap, will say no, will waste their time, they don't care, won't do it, ignore mode.
Now that I know the type of boat. I will restart the email campaign.
I also know, now, that the boat was manufactured in Scarborough (Toronto). Perhaps a (Toronto) local sailmaker knows the layout ...... Or is dad does. In an attic filling cabinet. Somewhere.
I am a DIY kinda guy but I really don't want to learn sail making. On kinda the same note the jib seems flat with no curves. That would make it pretty straightforward.
A bit hard to tell as the cloth is wrinkled the leech is in tatters and my cat think this is a new kind of string game. She will not be denied a part in it.
"CAT STOP chewing the forensic leftovers of my leech!".
Daniel
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13-11-2017, 08:48
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#21
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Aventura, FL
Boat: 2008 American Tug 34 #116
Posts: 657
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Re: Mistery 12 foot boat
I can pretty much promise you, a new suit of sails will cost you more than what you paid for the boat.
Years ago, dad bought an international 110 with 2 suits of sails. The way we had to raise the mainsail as we were leaving the canal .... the peak of the sail would always catch on the spreader..... If we were intent on raising the sail and not watching, we would tear out the peak of the sail. 2 suits, both mainsails torn out, no way to sail. Dad determined it was too expense to fix.
One night, I got one mainsail, cut out the damage peak, sewed in a dish towel, (I was pretty good with 'free form sewing on the machine), strengthen it with iron on tape and stitched that down too. Dad laughed but, I went sailing. Worked great. Big brother wanted to use the sail.... he was famous for ripping out the peak, I said, NOPE. That we the end of his sailing. LOL
Yes, I used a white linen dish towel. SMILE
__________________
And you folks thought I knew what I was talking about.
I do believe my intuitive gene has died.
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13-11-2017, 10:30
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#22
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 24
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Re: Mistery 12 foot boat
Quote:
Originally Posted by Olddan1943
I can pretty much promise you, a new suit of sails will cost you more than what you paid for the boat.
Years ago, dad bought an international 110 with 2 suits of sails. The way we had to raise the mainsail as we were leaving the canal .... the peak of the sail would always catch on the spreader..... If we were intent on raising the sail and not watching, we would tear out the peak of the sail. 2 suits, both mainsails torn out, no way to sail. Dad determined it was too expense to fix.
One night, I got one mainsail, cut out the damage peak, sewed in a dish towel, (I was pretty good with 'free form sewing on the machine), strengthen it with iron on tape and stitched that down too. Dad laughed but, I went sailing. Worked great. Big brother wanted to use the sail.... he was famous for ripping out the peak, I said, NOPE. That we the end of his sailing. LOL
Yes, I used a white linen dish towel. SMILE
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Great story.
Cost more? I know so and expect so. I am bracing myself for the sticker shock.
Got satisfaction.
Phone calls work, emails don't. Check. (Why in hell do they have a published email in the first place?)
2 sailmakers actually told me to bring the sails in. Also, as expected, said the arrow isn't in their reference-book-bible-catalog-necronomicon-thing.
Daniel
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13-11-2017, 11:36
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#23
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Aventura, FL
Boat: 2008 American Tug 34 #116
Posts: 657
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Re: Mistery 12 foot boat
Quote:
Originally Posted by floatsam
Great story.
Cost more? I know so and expect so. I am bracing myself for the sticker shock.
Got satisfaction.
Phone calls work, emails don't. Check. (Why in hell do they have a published email in the first place?)
2 sailmakers actually told me to bring the sails in. Also, as expected, said the arrow isn't in their reference-book-bible-catalog-necronomicon-thing.
Daniel
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They should have said, 'bring the sails in and don't forget your check book'
Some times if we want something bad enough, price be daymned.
They will use your existing sail as a pattern.
__________________
And you folks thought I knew what I was talking about.
I do believe my intuitive gene has died.
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13-11-2017, 12:34
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#24
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: SC
Boat: None,build the one shown of glass, had many from 6' to 48'.
Posts: 10,208
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Re: Mistery 12 foot boat
Quote:
Originally Posted by Olddan1943
They should have said, 'bring the sails in and don't forget your check book'
Some times if we want something bad enough, price be daymned.
They will use your existing sail as a pattern.
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Can you find someone locally that does canvas work eg. Bimini tops. I feel sure with the original sail they could reproduce it. You at not anticipating a race, I would guess, not knowing what she was, class racing probably is not in the plan. Enjoy her.
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13-11-2017, 13:34
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#25
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Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: La Ciudad de la Misión Didacus de Alcalá en Alta California, Virreinato de Nueva España
Boat: Cal 20
Posts: 20,553
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Re: Mystery 12 foot boat
I fixed the misspelling in the title.
__________________
Num Me Vexo?
For all of your celestial navigation questions: https://navlist.net/
A house is but a boat so poorly built and so firmly run aground no one would think to try and refloat it.
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13-11-2017, 14:19
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#26
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Senior Cruiser
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: puget sound washington
Boat: 1968 Islander bahama 24 hull 182, 1963 columbia 29 defender. hull # 60
Posts: 12,159
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Re: Mistery 12 foot boat
Quote:
Originally Posted by floatsam
Roger that.
I intend to.
I like old stuff. Like to make them era correct if not authentic. If I make sense here.
Not too knowledgeable here on the subject but I think just having sails made will cost a small bundle (Probably more than I paid for the boat) and I will make myself afford the small bundle more to make me proud from far away. Of course if they want 2 arms and 2 legs....I will have to say no.
Here is my jib furler:
And the top of the foil:
To my untrained eye it looks like PVC.
One owner long ago dropped the forestay ant the rim of the bobbin broke then he broke it some more. Then he didn't care anymore and drop-broke it all the way around.
Then he lost the thingamabob that stays fix to the forestay to guide the line in and out.
I have a fair idea on how to recycle/rebuild the current furler.....Should work. No hurry though the jib is in tatter. Someone left it in the wind.....like a whole winter or something.....Maybe in disgust after he broke the bobbin. IDK.
Daniel
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Dan looks like a diy setup. Get a new electrical wire spool with the correct hole size for the pvc to fit tightly and glue it in place wrap a small control line around the spool and put the jib sail on and pull the line to furl the jib . If you need more turns of the control line put them on the spool in till you can roll the sail all the way with the sheets making a couple of turns over the sail..
Similar to this PVC Roller Furler
close look it could be a small rope spool
__________________
Non illigitamus carborundum
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13-11-2017, 14:23
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#27
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Senior Cruiser
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: puget sound washington
Boat: 1968 Islander bahama 24 hull 182, 1963 columbia 29 defender. hull # 60
Posts: 12,159
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Re: Mystery 12 foot boat
Dan where were the pictures taken ( the print cast into the background surface is French) so may have better luck if you look in France for info on this boat.
__________________
Non illigitamus carborundum
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13-11-2017, 15:34
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#28
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 24
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Re: Mystery 12 foot boat
Quote:
Originally Posted by newhaul
Dan where were the pictures taken ( the print cast into the background surface is French) so may have better luck if you look in France for info on this boat.
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They were taken in my garage. The only text I see in those pictures is the one on the floor drain of the garage.
I live in Montreal, QC, Canada.
How the neck did you notice it and then read enough of it to identify that it wasn't English?
My first tongue is French.
My idea is to clean up the spool and glue a new PVC top and bottom to it. Then fabricate a guide to place below it. The guide would look like this one (But not as good ).
The guide would also have plastic washers so the bobbin can turn without rubbing the loop at the bottom of the stay.
As for is it a homebuilt? IDK. That's one of the things I would like to find out.
The original boat had one (As seen on that youtube video) The original jib fits well on the contraption as is. So in ignorance and knowing it is the right length and the diameter is good....I will make it work .
On another note.
The rudder was used without washers and the machine parts eroded the soft aluminium casting of the bracket. Same for the retainer clip and the rudder pin.
I filled the voids with JB Weld, filed the bracket and re bored the holes.
The bracket is symmetric so I reverse it . The wear is now on top.
After painting the bracket it looks bran spanking new .
Daniel
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13-11-2017, 15:59
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#29
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Senior Cruiser
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: puget sound washington
Boat: 1968 Islander bahama 24 hull 182, 1963 columbia 29 defender. hull # 60
Posts: 12,159
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Re: Mystery 12 foot boat
My great grandmother was Algonquin.
In a former life I was Alpine SAR and taught the same. Also a very highly trained observer. (Having a tablet with near infinate zoom helps to)
__________________
Non illigitamus carborundum
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13-11-2017, 17:17
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#30
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 24
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Re: Mystery 12 foot boat
Quote:
Originally Posted by newhaul
My great grandmother was Algonquin.
In a former life I was Alpine SAR and taught the same. Also a very highly trained observer. (Having a tablet with near infinate zoom helps to)
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In school we (Well I was) are though that the early Indian allies of New France were the Hurons, the Algonquin and the Montagnais. Myself like most Quebecois (pronounced [kebekwa]) have some native blood. Didn't give me super powers though.
I though you were either a snipper or an intelligence man.
Daniel
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