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Old 14-05-2015, 21:43   #61
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Re: My marina was supposed to wash my boat... Painted it too what would you do?

Skip..."to haul out" is to take a boat out of the water that may not be "trailerable" boat. In this case iris "lifted" out of the water with a "Travel Lift" which has large "straps/slings" that are positioned under the Bow and one normally jus forward of the shaft exiting the keel/stern tube. Hope this doesn't confuse you more..😊
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Old 14-05-2015, 21:47   #62
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Re: My marina was supposed to wash my boat... Painted it too what would you do?

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Originally Posted by fjwiley1 View Post
Skip..."to haul out" is to take a boat out of the water that may not be "trailerable" boat. In this case iris "lifted" out of the water with a "Travel Lift" which has large "straps/slings" that are positioned under the Bow and one normally jus forward of the shaft exiting the keel/stern tube. Hope this doesn't confuse you more..😊
More importantly- have you worn out your quotation mark key yet?
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Old 14-05-2015, 22:06   #63
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Re: My marina was supposed to wash my boat... Painted it too what would you do?

😊..I did go overboard lil bit ya think...

I am fortunate to have a top notch diver clean my bottom on a schedule...he stays busy year round with 2 others working for him also.

You still out there in the Bay area?

Lotta work over on this coast of Florida...

Life is good if you Keepa Smilin...😊


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum
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Old 15-05-2015, 06:16   #64
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Re: My marina was supposed to wash my boat... Painted it too what would you do?

This could be a message sent to the wrong number. Suggest you avoid speculation and go look at the boat, talk to the yard, and get the full story. Ask understanding of the facts and the reasons, and then work out a mutually agreeable solution.
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Old 15-05-2015, 06:52   #65
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Re: My marina was supposed to wash my boat... Painted it too what would you do?

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Last two times I hauled, at two different yards, one in FL one in NY, pressure washing the boat as soon as it came out of the water was not optional. And yes the paint remained on the boat.
You can ask not to have it pressure washed (some marinas charge extra for it) but once the crud dries, it's much harder to remove.If we are talking hard bottom paint, pressure washing should have minimal impact on good paint. If it's ablative, they can pretty much strip the entire bottom if they get aggressive and have an industrial high pressure unit. We usually hang around to make sure they aren't stripping the bottom.

As far as the original quesiton:
- Get it in writing (an email will work).
- Even if your state doesn't require them to adhere to a cost estimate, you can always tack on a note that if they find something that will increase the cost by more than 10% (pick a percentage), they must contact you for approval prior to proceeding.
- The bearing is a perfectly fine thing to bring up. You knew it was an issue, so they clearly aren't just making something up.
- My guess is there was confusion regarding what you requested. If the typical haul out for a bottom job includes paint, they could have easily marked it down for painting if you weren't very clear that paint wasn't requested (another reason for in writing). Go talk to them nicely and ask what they can do to make it right. Ask them for options but save getting in thier face for if they don't budge a bit. Push comes to shove, they can probably refer to thier work list and say thats what they wrote down when you called and courts typically side with the side that documents the agreement.
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Old 15-05-2015, 07:03   #66
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Re: My marina was supposed to wash my boat... Painted it too what would you do?

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Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
No written contract? No written estimate?


then I doubt the yard could seize the boat, or enforce any type of lien against it. Those states that allow oral contracts to be enforced generally want some reason to believe the contract existed, and any business that is not using written work orders or contracts is trying to play games anyway. Like saying "No, we didn't drop your boat, we never had any work order telling us to lift it. Aliens came down in the middle of the night and abducted it!"


Perhaps, since they are so overloaded and backed up, offer them a way out and say "Are you sure you called the right guy? The right boat? I just asked for the haul and wash, I never asked for bottom paint. I'm certain of that."


If the boat really needed paint and I wanted to keep using the marina, I might offer to pay them for the paint--not at retail but at market price--and not the labor.


If they tried to seize the boat or lien it, I'd remind them that doing either could be grossly & criminally illegal. I had a little problem with a tow yard once, and when I suggested that the car was titled property, that I HAD the title, and that the local state police barracks was fifteen minutes away, all of a sudden they could release the car without any problem.


A cash business with no receipts and work orders can be nice, but a boatyard has no business doing things that way.
All states allow oral contracts. The problem is with a written contract the court can look at the exact language. With an oral contract, they must listen to both sides and then decide what the actual contract was.

The problem is: The boat yard can point to thier list of projects and say when they recieve a request they put it down on thier list of projects (if they did the project long after the call, they must have written something down) . Unless there is evidence they fabricated the list of projects, the court will typically place a higher emphasis on it because they documented the oral contract.
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Old 15-05-2015, 07:25   #67
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Re: My marina was supposed to wash my boat... Painted it too what would you do?

I ... do ... not ... understand ...

why so many posters say, lay down or bend over when a Marina overcharges ... does un-authorized work ... or charges for work not done ...

... it amazes me ...

First off, I "seriously" doubt that "oral" contracts are valid for a service-based "business contract".

I'm absolutely positive that most, if not all states, require a written contract, with an estimated quote(unless the customer allows for no quote).

But mostly, I'm appalled at the number of boaters who seem to feel that being potentially ripped off should be part of the business relationship between a boater and the boating service sector.

I have been ripped off so often with work PAID FOR, but not performed, that I now will not let the marina do A-N-Y-T-H-I-N-G, other than put the boat in and take it out and shore it ... no scrubbing, no washing, no battery maintenance, no outboard maintenance, no more engine work ... no more NOTHING else.

I've also heard horror story after horror story ... many ... from others, who "just paid it", and used it as a learning experience ... often.

Maybe ... if boaters had just a little more juice in their blood, "BOAT", might mean something other than "Bring Out Another Thousand".
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Old 15-05-2015, 09:10   #68
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Re: My marina was supposed to wash my boat... Painted it too what would you do?

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Originally Posted by SURV69 View Post
I ... do ... not ... understand ...

why so many posters say, lay down or bend over when a Marina overcharges ... does un-authorized work ... or charges for work not done ...

... it amazes me ...

First off, I "seriously" doubt that "oral" contracts are valid for a service-based "business contract".

I'm absolutely positive that most, if not all states, require a written contract, with an estimated quote(unless the customer allows for no quote).

But mostly, I'm appalled at the number of boaters who seem to feel that being potentially ripped off should be part of the business relationship between a boater and the boating service sector.

I have been ripped off so often with work PAID FOR, but not performed, that I now will not let the marina do A-N-Y-T-H-I-N-G, other than put the boat in and take it out and shore it ... no scrubbing, no washing, no battery maintenance, no outboard maintenance, no more engine work ... no more NOTHING else.

I've also heard horror story after horror story ... many ... from others, who "just paid it", and used it as a learning experience ... often.

Maybe ... if boaters had just a little more juice in their blood, "BOAT", might mean something other than "Bring Out Another Thousand".
It may be fun to rant and rave about giving them a piece of your mind and you are going to take them to court but 99% of the time, it's totally unproductive.

Oral contracts are perfectly legal. They are poor buisness practice (on both sides of the contract) but perfectly legal (some states have put in special rules for auto repair but even then, if you don't ask for a written quote and you admit to asking for work to be done orally, you will be in a tough position).

Of course it's a no win situation for the marina. If they said they won't touch the boat until he comes in and signs off on an official estimate, we'd be hearing complaints about how difficult they are to work with.

You are making a HUGE assumption that the marina is trying to rip the guy off. You are only hearing one side of the story and the OP even admits to not being sure on some of the details. Odds are it's the result of poor communication (on both sides) not some nefarious plan, so going in and talking to the marina about how to come to a resultion is the adult thing to do.
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Old 15-05-2015, 10:53   #69
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Re: My marina was supposed to wash my boat... Painted it too what would you do?

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Originally Posted by valhalla360 View Post
It may be fun to rant and rave about giving them a piece of your mind and you are going to take them to court but 99% of the time, it's totally unproductive.

Oral contracts are perfectly legal. They are poor buisness practice (on both sides of the contract) but perfectly legal (some states have put in special rules for auto repair but even then, if you don't ask for a written quote and you admit to asking for work to be done orally, you will be in a tough position).

Of course it's a no win situation for the marina. If they said they won't touch the boat until he comes in and signs off on an official estimate, we'd be hearing complaints about how difficult they are to work with.

You are making a HUGE assumption that the marina is trying to rip the guy off. You are only hearing one side of the story and the OP even admits to not being sure on some of the details. Odds are it's the result of poor communication (on both sides) not some nefarious plan, so going in and talking to the marina about how to come to a resultion is the adult thing to do.

There was no bad communication on my side. The details I'm sketchy about were what paint was on my boat and other stuff that is irrelevant.

I asked them to haul it and wash it, they asked if I wanted paint, I said no. They said they were backed up and would call me when it was ready to be hauled. Three weeks later I got a call saying it had been hauled washed and painted.

The main reason I made this post was to ask what others would do regarding paying for the paint, I shouldn't have even brought up the cutlass bearing.

They are good people, it was a miscommunication on their side, I'm going in now to talk to them I'll post an update after.
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Old 15-05-2015, 11:01   #70
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Re: My marina was supposed to wash my boat... Painted it too what would you do?

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Originally Posted by nimblemotors View Post
Just say the hell with it, you're not paying, you're leaving the boat there.
Just buy a new better boat that has a shiny bottom already and put in a different marina.
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Old 15-05-2015, 11:07   #71
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Re: My marina was supposed to wash my boat... Painted it too what would you do?

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There was no bad communication on my side. The details I'm sketchy about were what paint was on my boat and other stuff that is irrelevant.

I asked them to haul it and wash it, they asked if I wanted paint, I said no. They said they were backed up and would call me when it was ready to be hauled. Three weeks later I got a call saying it had been hauled washed and painted.

The main reason I made this post was to ask what others would do regarding paying for the paint, I shouldn't have even brought up the cutlass bearing.

They are good people, it was a miscommunication on their side, I'm going in now to talk to them I'll post an update after.
Unfortuantely, we only have your side of the story (could be dead on correct). It sure sounds like somewhere in the process there was poor communication.

I started off doing at work but now often to it for personal items: I follow up a conversation with a quick email summary. If there is ever a conflict over what was agreed to, it puts me in a much stronger position unless they can come up with a written response to my email. Just takes a couple minutes. Occasionally, it does result in a response saying that's not what they understood but that gives us the oppurtunity to correct it before something is done.
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Old 15-05-2015, 11:30   #72
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Re: My marina was supposed to wash my boat... Painted it too what would you do?

What the hell happened to "A man's handshake is his bond.". I thought boat yards still did business that way. Probably not, sounds as though that might be that gone awry in this instance.
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Old 15-05-2015, 11:37   #73
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Re: My marina was supposed to wash my boat... Painted it too what would you do?

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What the hell happened to "A man's handshake is his bond.". I thought boat yards still did business that way. Probably not, sounds as though that might be that gone awry in this instance.
So far I've seen nothing to suggest that the marina chose not to live up to thier word. Everything I've read from the OP suggests a communication issue (just not clear the nature of the issue and who messed up).

If the marina thought they had agreement to do a paint job why should their integrity be called into question because they expect to be paid for it?

Then again, we havent' heard the marinas response yet. It could turn out there was a mistake on thier end and they will make it right.
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Old 15-05-2015, 11:37   #74
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Re: My marina was supposed to wash my boat... Painted it too what would you do?

Ok, now I feel like more of an idiot than usual, I thought bottom paint was expensive.

So here's an update. On the phone this morning I told them I didn't ask for paint, they said Oh? and I said I'd come in to talk.

I walked in there, said how much was the paint anyway? They said $100, I said, oh that's not worth arguing over, I'll just pay it. They said, no we didn't have a work order we'll scratch that from the bill. The end.
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Old 15-05-2015, 12:06   #75
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Re: My marina was supposed to wash my boat... Painted it too what would you do?

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Ok, now I feel like more of an idiot than usual, I thought bottom paint was expensive.

So here's an update. On the phone this morning I told them I didn't ask for paint, they said Oh? and I said I'd come in to talk.

I walked in there, said how much was the paint anyway? They said $100, I said, oh that's not worth arguing over, I'll just pay it. They said, no we didn't have a work order we'll scratch that from the bill. The end.
Recommend them. Sorry about your ulcers.
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