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Old 25-11-2011, 13:35   #16
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Re: Multihullers, tell us what you like about monohulls!

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C'mon multihullers, the monohullers are being much more complimentary about multis! Speak now or forever hold your peace about which side is more biased!

Brad
Some mono's look nice.
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Old 25-11-2011, 13:41   #17
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Re: Multihullers, Tell Us what You Like About Monohulls

Horses for courses is right.

Draft. Nuf said. I like exploring backwaters and the Chesapeake has lots of those. But there are shoal draft monos that do pretty well too. Any approach to shoal draft is a compromise, though (mono or cat, keel or boards). My cats have all taken different approaches and all had flaws.

Heeling. Monohull sailors miss the lack of healing as feedback. However, experienced cat sailors feel the heel and acceleration of a cat very clearly; it is a matter of calibrating the senses. I find the heel and the lack of instant acceleration odd on a multihull.

Helm feel. Yup, most monohulls are more pleasant, but it's not a hard and fast thing. My Stiletto 27 had a wonderful feel, in part due to adjustable rudder rake, adjustable center board fore-aft location, and light weight. My PDQ has no feel until the breeze gets up, then it is fine.

No capsize. I would not chose to single-hand a cat over distances where sleep is required while the weather is rough. Experienced cat sailors know capsize is possible. It's not likely, not at all, if the crew is paying attention and on their game, but that's hard to do while asleep.

Sinking. I wouldn't like sailing far in a boat the can sink. Though some cats can sink, mine have all been unsinkable (foam or numerous crash tanks). But this is probably an irrational fear, since in 30 years I've never had a truly serious leak.

Cost. Good cats are $$$. On the other hand, they hold resale value very well. I have bought and sold 3 cats, all in good shape when I bought them, and with good maintenance, sold all for more than they cost. Also, it is a mistake to compare a 32-foot cat to a 32-foot monohull; a 36-foot monohull is more comparable in terms of space, and a 40+ monohull in terms of speed. Very defiantly a difficult comparison, but for me cost did not matter so much.

Ease of handling. Since a smaller cat has smaller sails but the same accommodations, a cat is easier to sail. But that is only one measure of ease. The foredeck is a pleasure; it is wide and flat.

Motion. Cats are rough, but they don't roll. Personal choice.

Looks. The most beautiful boats are old and made of wood. But that doesn't mean I want one. Form follows function, and I quickly learn to like the looks of anything that works well.
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Old 25-11-2011, 13:42   #18
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Own a mono for cost, purchase price, haul out, slip rent, ease of sailing. Absolutely love the interior size of a gemini, the shallow depth, speed, no heeling.
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Old 25-11-2011, 13:50   #19
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Re: Multihullers, Tell Us what You Like About Monohulls

Keegan, if you read the original post you would see that this thread and the corresponding one in the monohull forum are not intended to foster debate at all, but rather as antidotes to the admittedly tired debate between monohullers and multihullers. I am glad to hear, however, that you will admit to loving both your old Perry designed double-ender and your current cat.

And 44C, faint praise indeed!

Cheers!

Brad
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Old 25-11-2011, 14:08   #20
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Re: Multihullers, Tell Us what You Like About Monohulls

OK, while we have a break in the action I can add another feature of monohulls that I like - the relatively narrow beam wll permit transit of the French canal system (and some amazing wine regions), whereas most modern multis are just too wide.

Brad
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Old 25-11-2011, 14:09   #21
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Can we have a group hug and some experiential learning exercises.
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Old 25-11-2011, 14:27   #22
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Re: Multihullers, Tell Us what You Like About Monohulls

Sorry Sabray, a group hug was not my intention (and the last thing I would ever want to get involved in). Obviously this was largely a waste of time. My hope was that it might get some from each camp to think about, or perhaps to just grudgingly admit some benefits to the boats from the other camp. I actually thought it might be a productive, perhaps even enlightening exercize. What I wanted was an opportunity for acknowledging, on a rational basis, benefits (or just as interestingly, perceived benefits) for each type of design.

Anyway, I should have known that it had about as much chance of success as inviting the anti-gun people to say what they like about guns, and the pro-gun people to say what they would like about being denied them!

Brad
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Old 25-11-2011, 14:57   #23
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Re: Multihullers, Tell Us what You Like About Monohulls

I like both monohulls and multihulls. One advantage of monohulls that hasn't been mentioned yet is pointing ability. Also, cats will still pitch, even if they don't heel.

Having said that, Cats have far better accomodations. It's not just the size, it's the absence of living in a cave. Even monohulls with raised salons and well designed cockpits cannot compete with the comfort and liveability of a multihull, excluding trimarans, which, except for pure speed, are the worst of both worlds in my opinion. A trimaran can be a fabulous daysailer, but I'd never choose one as a cruising boat.
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Old 25-11-2011, 15:29   #24
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Re: Multihullers, Tell Us what You Like About Monohulls

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Originally Posted by Southern Star View Post
Sorry Sabray, a group hug was not my intention (and the last thing I would ever want to get involved in). Obviously this was largely a waste of time. My hope was that it might get some from each camp to think about, or perhaps to just grudgingly admit some benefits to the boats from the other camp. I actually thought it might be a productive, perhaps even enlightening exercize. What I wanted was an opportunity for acknowledging, on a rational basis, benefits (or just as interestingly, perceived benefits) for each type of design.

Anyway, I should have known that it had about as much chance of success as inviting the anti-gun people to say what they like about guns, and the pro-gun people to say what they would like about being denied them!

Brad
Don't beat yourself up... your intentions were good.

Interesting observation to come out of it though...
far more mono owners participated than multi owners.

Don't know what it says though.
Maybe broad boat = narrow mind and narrow boat = broad mind

Nah... couldn't be that lol
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Old 25-11-2011, 15:45   #25
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Re: Multihullers, Tell Us what You Like About Monohulls

For "my" type of cruising... (12 years of only home full time liveaboard), mostly in warm latitudes or seasons, usually anchored out, centered around the diving, and often in very shallow island groups, like the Bahamas & Belieze, I find our trimaran has all of the advantages. I have also found it easier to cruise really cheeply & self sufficiently due to the ample solar panel space, and "quietly", since I need no other form of generators... (wind or diesel). Also, with two entire "storage hulls" to carry the extra boats, scuba tanks, spear guns, jugs, awnings, and tools of this lifestyle, we are not crowded, even with only a 34' boat.

When the criteria changes, however, like in colder latitudes or seasons, using marinas more often than not, using deep but crowded anchorages (requiring heavy chain), and our appetite for maintaining a larger amount of exterior surface area wains, monohulls look better all the time.

Example: We had our German friends on Momo visit in our NW Creek, and their tough as nails, hard chine, aluminum "one off", showed what she had going for her. With bilge keels, she could also sit on the bottom if necessary, like we can, and she was relatively shallow draft as well. Most impressive was that being a vastly smaller air volume than our tri, and being extremely well insulated with IG glass ports and all, nothing more than cooking dinner could keep it toasty below when we went over for dinner on a 45 degree night. These folks also took their wonderful boat up into the Lake Superior and Canadian inland seas, something I would enjoy, but never choose to do with our boat! It is just not suited to it.

The trick for all of us I think, is to match the type of boat we choose to the type of cruising that we do, along with the amount of money & skills that we do or do not have.

May we all love the boat that we have, and it's most perfect characteristic of all... being paid for!

Mark
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Old 25-11-2011, 15:56   #26
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Re: Multihullers, Tell Us what You Like About Monohulls

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Old 25-11-2011, 16:17   #27
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Re: Multihullers, Tell Us what You Like About Monohulls

I really like the looks of almost any mono over a multi. Monos, in my book,
are sweet looking boats!
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Old 25-11-2011, 16:36   #28
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Re: Multihullers, tell us what you like about monohulls!

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Some mono's look nice.
Damn 44 cruisingcat I know that hurt.
I also appreciate the lines of a lot of monohulls. I like the fact I could buy a nice mono for a lot less than a nice cat. I also like the way you can feel the helm on a mono better and the feeling of heeling can be enjoyable....for a short time. If I were to own a daysailer no doubt it would be a mono but for cruising I don't think I could make the shift back to a mono.
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Old 25-11-2011, 16:48   #29
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Re: Multihullers, Tell Us what You Like About Monohulls

At this point in time monohulls, especially "classic plastic", are available on the Chesapeake almost for free. Way back when Hiscock was writing the book, he was doing it on a less than 40 ft boat. A lot of the other classic books written by the early cruisers were written on relatively small monohulls. I too had a small 34' monohull after losing my old catamaran years ago. The catamaran was wooden and sailed like a ship. No windward ability at all, but the sails were crap. A freak storm ripped her off the mooring and she hit the only rocks in the area and was totalled. I was away for a week and came back when the marine police called. I searched around for my next boat and eventually got a 34' sloop with a yanmar engine. It was a pretty boat and much more tricky to sail in that the slightest misbalance of the sails or even an unexpected wave would require immediate adjustment. The first sail had me in irons and perplexed why she wouldn't settle down like my cat did. I learned to find the sweet spot and got the best out of her. Back at the dock I got a lot of compliments about how nice she looked. Lots of teak and classic lines. I could never go very far though, she had trouble going any faster than 4 or 5 knots. I met a swedish lady who loved to sail and we sailed a lot. After a few years a catamaran project boat came up and I bought it. It was bigger, faster, and had more potential for longer ocean passages. The new owner of the sloop got it for a bargain, but even now it would go for a lot less. There are many sweet classic monohulls out there just waiting for an owner to do some rehab and get some sailing out of them. I was following a friend around to a couple of marinas while he shopped for a free boat. One was a 32 foot boat built in Poland, so it obviously had crossed an ocean. The teak work was beautiful, but the overall finish was a decade of neglect. I could forsee a pressure wash job inside and out, then organize it, maybe new engine, and it would be a pretty boat.
I regularly sail with a couple of friends who both have full keel bulletproof ketches and they get pretty good speed in a blow. It is very seamanlike to stand there and hang on. I still have the touch to balance a boat like that and it will sail itself. Just like the old days.
But, I do not want to every go back to owning a monohull. My cat sails like a ship with deceptive speed. The motion is diffrent, and some people prefer the motion of a keelboat, but I like that flat tippy snap roll as I bowl along. Windward seems like a problem, but it seems to me that it's because the boat moves so easily that apparent wind comes forward and we do not really try to analyze it carefully, we are really close reaching. If we slow down to monohull speed, we point higher, but do not foot as well. I will probably get a smaller boat someday, or maybe have younger crew to help me handle the beast. I always like those Cape Dory Typhoons. I couldn't do that though, I almost bought a Hobie 18 for daysailing this summer.
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Old 25-11-2011, 17:10   #30
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Re: Multihullers, tell us what you like about monohulls!

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If I were to own a daysailer no doubt it would be a mono but for cruising I don't think I could make the shift back to a mono.
I feel just the opposite. I could enjoy a monohull for cruising. They have a nice sense of security. But for sheer fun daysailing, my old Stiletto 27 could take all comers: very fast, easy to handle with great feel, dry in all reasonable conditions, and could take her right up to the beach.

Funny.
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