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Old 08-09-2015, 18:14   #16
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Re: Motorsailer engines Horsepower: 170 vs 400?

Wow, this all is fascinating. I can't thank y'all enough for the thoughtful replies. I'm learning a lot.

So, cruising in the 8-9-10 knot range, the 170 hp may be enough. If I want to cruise 10+ knots, the 400hp is required. With all the consequences, too (more fuel consumption , wear and tear on engine/vessel/me, etc). Maybe I'm oversimplifying...
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Old 08-09-2015, 20:15   #17
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Re: Motorsailer engines Horsepower: 170 vs 400?

Quote:
The magazine review shows the boat pointing at 30 to 35 degrees apparent while sailing. That is an admirable pointing angle for a modern race boat.

I have to say that the Lancer 44 was far ahead of it's time if it could motor at a S/L ratio greater than 1.8 and still point like a J-boat.
Frankly, I find those sailing figures a bit hard to believe. Make that VERY hard t believe if they said that it was sailing effectively at those angles. You know what they say about "if it sounds too good to be true...".

Meanwhile, my previous comments about the excessive horsepower were made thinking this was a normal motor sailor, not a power boat with sails. With that info in hand, I retract my thoughts about structural soundness, and even can understand the thought process that brought about these (to me) silly designs. One could imagine that if they were really good, practical designs that there would be more such still in production...

So, for the OP, if this kind of performance lights your candle, have at it and enjoy your new boat, whichever one you chose.

Jim
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Old 08-09-2015, 20:40   #18
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Re: Motorsailer engines Horsepower: 170 vs 400?

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Originally Posted by skwanderer View Post
Wow, this all is fascinating. I can't thank y'all enough for the thoughtful replies. I'm learning a lot.

So, cruising in the 8-9-10 knot range, the 170 hp may be enough. If I want to cruise 10+ knots, the 400hp is required. With all the consequences, too (more fuel consumption , wear and tear on engine/vessel/me, etc). Maybe I'm oversimplifying...
Try to get the power curves for the engines in question and see the fuel burn as the HP increases. For the boats we are looking at buying, as one exceeds 1.25 Speed Length Ratio, fuel burn starts to go vertical as one gets to hull speed. You end up burning lots of fuel/money for very little speed increase.

The other thing to consider between the two boats is the duty rating on the engines. The duty rating and how you intend to use the boat may influence your decision.

You might have to join www.boatdiesel.com to get the engine data.

Later,
Dan
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Old 08-09-2015, 21:41   #19
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Re: Motorsailer engines Horsepower: 170 vs 400?

Thanks much! I was having a hard time find much research or history on this craft
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Old 08-09-2015, 21:42   #20
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Re: Motorsailer engines Horsepower: 170 vs 400?

Will do. Very helpful. Thanks!
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Old 08-09-2015, 21:44   #21
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Re: Motorsailer engines Horsepower: 170 vs 400?

Yep thanks for the info! I'll find out if my candle gets lit this weekend in the sea trials.
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Old 08-09-2015, 21:47   #22
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Re: Motorsailer engines Horsepower: 170 vs 400?

Complete article about the Lancer 44 including fuel burn and speed achieved:

https://books.google.com/books?id=lQ...erkins&f=false
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Old 08-09-2015, 22:05   #23
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Re: Motorsailer engines Horsepower: 170 vs 400?

Oh wow! Score! Thanks much! I'm very excited anout the prospects of owning this craft. Seems like a great happy medium for my lifestyle and interests.
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Old 09-09-2015, 04:01   #24
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Re: Motorsailer engines Horsepower: 170 vs 400?

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, skwanderer, and gazzabo.
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Old 09-09-2015, 09:38   #25
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Re: Motorsailer engines Horsepower: 170 vs 400?

Quote:
Originally Posted by skwanderer View Post
Wow, this all is fascinating. I can't thank y'all enough for the thoughtful replies. I'm learning a lot.

So, cruising in the 8-9-10 knot range, the 170 hp may be enough. If I want to cruise 10+ knots, the 400hp is required. With all the consequences, too (more fuel consumption , wear and tear on engine/vessel/me, etc). Maybe I'm oversimplifying...
You aren't over simplifying. If the small gain in speed if worth it to you, hang onto your wallet.
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Old 09-09-2015, 19:30   #26
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Re: Motorsailer engines Horsepower: 170 vs 400?

I don't have all the calculated specs , but I do have a Lancer 44 with twin 4-236 Perkins. Great boat and it doesn't need as much power as it has. I usually only use the twin engines to maneuver in a marina. While cruising, when there is no wind to sail, I run at 1500 rpm on one engine with Campbell Sailor 20 in dia. prop and do 6.5 knots. From there you can get to 10 knots using the twins at 1800 rpm. But the fuel will disappear at an exponential rate. At 1500 rpm the difference between single or twins is half to .75 of a knot. My boat displaces a lot more than 23000 lbs. Maybe they originally calculated that displacement without 325 gal of fuel, 125 gal of water, a 10 kw genset, a washer drier and a lot of fishing gear. The original water line was raised by 6 in. It does sail well and motors effortlessly.
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Old 09-09-2015, 19:57   #27
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Re: Motorsailer engines Horsepower: 170 vs 400?

Hi there. I have a friend who bought a Lancer 44 motor sailer 4 years ago. I have worked on the boat in the meantime and it has 2x170 hp Mercedes engines. On sea trial at 1000 RPM on both motors it was travelling at 11 knots in still water.
The boat is the modified aft cabin version, of which not too many were built after Lancer went bust. This would be considerably heavier than the boat you are looking at. They do sail pretty well, a bonus for a motor sailer.
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Old 09-09-2015, 21:45   #28
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Re: Motorsailer engines Horsepower: 170 vs 400?

Awesome! Score! A Lancer owner! Thanks for your reply! Very helpful. Do you have a furling mainsail, or one with a boom? I'm looking at two vessels. One has a top deck with a steering station (helm) up on it and a furling main, the other has a fixed boom, and this not a top deck above the salon.

Also, if you don't mind.... What year is yours? The 1981 I'm looking at has a wooden deck in the aft outside deck (it's the one withe the additional steering station out side up top. The 1980 has fiberglass aft deck, and it's full of crazy spider cracks and areas of sponginess.
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Old 09-09-2015, 21:58   #29
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Re: Motorsailer engines Horsepower: 170 vs 400?

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Originally Posted by Caravankid View Post
Hi there. I have a friend who bought a Lancer 44 motor sailer 4 years ago. I have worked on the boat in the meantime and it has 2x170 hp Mercedes engines. On sea trial at 1000 RPM on both motors it was travelling at 11 knots in still water.
The boat is the modified aft cabin version, of which not too many were built after Lancer went bust. This would be considerably heavier than the boat you are looking at. They do sail pretty well, a bonus for a motor sailer.
Hi! Can you elaborate on describing the modified aft cabin version? And thanks for the note that they sail pretty well!
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Old 09-09-2015, 23:26   #30
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Re: Motorsailer engines Horsepower: 170 vs 400?

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Originally Posted by skwanderer View Post
Awesome Lancerbye!!! Score! A Lancer owner! Thanks for your reply! Very helpful. Do you have a furling mainsail, or one with a boom? I'm looking at two vessels. One has a top deck with a steering station (helm) up on it and a furling main, the other has a fixed boom, and this not a top deck above the salon.

Also, if you don't mind.... What year is yours? The 1981 I'm looking at has a wooden deck in the aft outside deck (it's the one withe the additional steering station out side up top. The 1980 has fiberglass aft deck, and it's full of crazy spider cracks and areas of sponginess.
I meant to call the upper helm station a flybridge,but I cannot edit my post now.
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