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Old 20-04-2011, 10:46   #16
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Re: Motor Sailing Do's and Dont's

The next question would be: How many of you even have a cone on board your boat?
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Old 20-04-2011, 10:59   #17
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Re: Motor Sailing Do's and Dont's

Like those cones with a scoop of Ben and Jerry's Chunky Monkey but have never seen one used on a sailboat (although it would be nice to know the guy overtaking you is cheating by running his engine)! Kidding aside, I find that leaving the main up while motorsailing when you really need to pinch to get somewhere both stabilizes the boat and gives a little lift as well.
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Old 20-04-2011, 11:02   #18
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Re: Motor Sailing Do's and Dont's

There are a couple of commercial fishing steel sailboats in Morro Bay. They have cones hanging from the rigging sometimes. I think they fish for tuna of various species that are very far out and it makes economic sense to sail part way for them.
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Old 20-04-2011, 11:02   #19
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Re: Motor Sailing Do's and Dont's

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Originally Posted by Get-a-Life View Post
We too do a lot of motor sailing here in the Southern regions.

At the moment we own a racer cruiser and have never heard of a single boat in the Cruising Yacht Club having an "alignment problem."

I can say however, that quite a few years ago I read an interesting article titled "1 + 1 = 3" the gist of the article was if you were motoring at 1 knot or sailing at 1 knot, combining the two propulsion sytems together would give you 3 knots.

I can certainly say that this may not hold up mathematically correct, but it would not be far wrong.

If conditions are too boisterous, we often motor sail with only a small headsail out and no main.

Works for us.

Ken
It doesn't sound right mathematically, but it does make a certain sense. The main factors controlling your speed, are force - resistance. Items of drag on a sailboat, Hull, water displaced, prop, rigging. Hull and water displaced has already been minimised by the slender canoe shaped hull design. That leaves the rigging, and the prop. If sailing the prop, rudder, keel gives drag, and the rigging is generating force. If motoring the prop is moving water past the rudder and keel, but the rigging gives drag. If both are used You are minimizing the losses from the unused form of propulsion. I don't think you will get quite 3, but better than 2 is likely.

As far as sailing down the ICW, I've seen it done for short stretches when the wind was right. You could get pretty busy tacking around corners in some places. If using both, you could just depower the sails when the wind is bad, and get a boost when it is good.
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Old 20-04-2011, 11:41   #20
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Re: Motor Sailing Do's and Dont's

Having the sails up when motoring can save substantial amounts of fuel over just motoring because motoring increases and moves forward the apparent wind.

Motorsailing won't help if the true wind is coming from straight ahead or straight behind (or there is no true wind). But a true wind that barely moves the boat on its own can reduce fuel use by half when motor sailing.

Two cautions:

Make sure the engine is running at a high enough RPM to be at operating temperature. This avoids carbon buildup.

Do not motorsail when heeled a lot (my personal rule is less than 15 degrees but some might say less). This is because many engines have lubrication problems when tipped on their axis.

Carl
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Old 20-04-2011, 16:23   #21
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Re: Motor Sailing Do's and Dont's

Occassionaly when things get a little tense, we have "The cone of silence!"

KenM
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Old 20-04-2011, 16:42   #22
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Re: Motor Sailing Do's and Dont's

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The next question would be: How many of you even have a cone on board your boat?
I have one.

The cone isn't required on vessels under 12 meters in length, but it would be good seamanship to display one anyway if under power and sail.
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Old 20-04-2011, 16:48   #23
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Re: Motor Sailing Do's and Dont's

Things to ponder ... It is easier to dump the jib, if needed, by releasing the sheets whereas dumping the main when the wind is abeam or abaft the beam is problematic (sail must be lowered). The mainsail usually needs less attention when going up-wind such as if tacking.

My forthcoming motorboat is coming with steadying sails which should be useful to increase range when winds are abeam or abaft.

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Old 20-04-2011, 17:40   #24
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Re: Motor Sailing Do's and Dont's

Motor too small,running poorly,wind too light, but miles to make? Motorsailing will get you to weather.
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Old 20-04-2011, 17:51   #25
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Re: Motor Sailing Do's and Dont's

I normally motor when there is very little or no wind. At those times, the apparent wind is almost directly on the bow. I usually keep the main up to steady the boat and get some additional help from the wind if there is any at all. When the wind picks up, the motor goes off and the genny is unfurled. When the wind dies, the motor comes on and the genny is furled again. I don't see much point in motoring when there's enough wind to sail.
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Old 20-04-2011, 20:14   #26
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Re: Motor Sailing Do's and Dont's

When my sailing speed drops below 4 knots, I turn on one engine and run it at about 2200 to 2600 rpms.

If I am on passage, I will run the starboard engine for 12 hours and then the port engine for 12 hours, alternating the engines around the clock for as long as there is little or no wind. I always check the oil before starting the engine up for the 12 hour run.

One engine pushes our Privilege 39 at about five and a half knots to windward, and we make better speed on one engine when we are not going into the wind.

The only time I use two engines when motorsailing is when I am going through a pass, entering a harbor, or motorsailing into the teeth of a gale.
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Old 20-04-2011, 21:37   #27
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Re: Motor Sailing Do's and Dont's

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When my sailing speed drops below 4 knots, I turn on one engine and run it at about 2200 to 2600 rpms.

If I am on passage, I will run the starboard engine for 12 hours and then the port engine for 12 hours, alternating the engines around the clock for as long as there is little or no wind. I always check the oil before starting the engine up for the 12 hour run.

One engine pushes our Privilege 39 at about five and a half knots to windward, and we make better speed on one engine when we are not going into the wind.

The only time I use two engines when motorsailing is when I am going through a pass, entering a harbor, or motorsailing into the teeth of a gale.
That is pretty well what I do, except I am running between 1000 and 1400rpm. (slower engines) With only one engine my speed at 1400rpm, sails in, I get 6.5 knts. I often cruise on one engine at 1000rpm with sails to get 6 to 6.5 knts. Fuel consumption is way down.
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Old 20-04-2011, 21:41   #28
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Re: Motor Sailing Do's and Dont's

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I saw one once. I think he was a newbie. lol

Maybe just a person with a masters license acting under it and wanting to keep it. just cause people don't do it does not let you off the hook
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Old 20-04-2011, 22:09   #29
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Re: Motor Sailing Do's and Dont's

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If your feeling brave, pop the spinnaker up, that should frighten the life out of anyone coming towards you

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+1 LOA
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Old 20-04-2011, 22:34   #30
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Re: Motor Sailing Do's and Dont's

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Two cautions:

Make sure the engine is running at a high enough RPM to be at operating temperature. This avoids carbon buildup.

Do not motorsail when heeled a lot (my personal rule is less than 15 degrees but some might say less). This is because many engines have lubrication problems when tipped on their axis.

Carl
As Stargazer was designed as an efficient motor sailor, the engine comes on if the winds are less than 15knts or on the nose.

Winds at 10 knts I can reach at SMG 8 knts and Perkins set at 1300 rpm

Winds at 14 knts I can reach at SMG 8 knts and Perkins set at 1000 rpm

At those rpm’s you hardly hear the engine and fuel consumption is so minimal as to not even think about it

Winds on the nose, the schooner rig is very efficient for sailing close hauled with steadying sails that still give you some lift.

Good advice Carl.

My biggest worry is carbon build up, so at watch changes we run up the engine to 80% continuous to blow things out

The Perkins came with a very deep oil pan and I have never seen any fluctuations in oil pressure or temp if hard pressed, but with a motor sailor's mentality, I rarely press the boat

As far as showing a cone, we have one on board for inspection purposes, but I have never bothered to fly it, since I view this as an archaic rule, meant more for older rigged large sailing vessels.

Primary reasons:

Hanging it inverted from the forestay could both damage the furled headsail and/or take it out of ready deployment if needed due to an engine failure.

Because it is now rarely used, you are making a very big assumption that the other vessel will understand its meaning and act accordingly

I always demonstrate my intentions (as a power driven vessel) well before coming into a close quarter situation, either by early and easily understood actions.... or by VHF.

In a 3rd world country a sailor is foolish to think that the sailing rule will be honored

In a relatively small craft, a yacht’s cone would be hard to distinguish until relatively close at which time you should have made your intentions very clear by being proactive.

As a Master mariner, I would not be afraid of proving by my actions that the lack of showing an inverted cone, had nothing to do with any collision.

However, if you happen to sail within a sea of racing lawyers, then the stupidity factor is much higher and I am sure many other factors will be brought up.
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