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Old 26-05-2014, 02:26   #31
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Re: Motor Sailers

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Originally Posted by Sondor View Post
My reason for thinking a motor-sailer may be a good way to go is - They sail fine downwind and reaching, and who wants to bash upwind when you can economically motor in those sometimes uncomfortable upwind situations?
Sondor, I hope that you don't think that motoring upwind in one of these, in "bashing" conditions, will be much pleasanter than in a proper sailing yacht. You may stay drier in the pilot house, but I doubt if there is a big comfort advantage.

And while they do sail downwind and reach ok, they will always be somewhat slower than their sailing brethren. I'm not being condescending here... they have generally smaller sail plans and more wetted area that true sailors of similar size.

Neither of these quibbles mean that a m/s can't fit your cruising plans, but there are prices to pay for the comfort!

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Old 26-05-2014, 02:26   #32
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Re: Motor Sailers

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Originally Posted by Sondor View Post
Wow, I really like that Haber 34c4 myself... In one of the reviews it says they start at 2677700 SEK when delivered in Poland. If my conversion (Google) is correct, then that's ~402k USD, or 295k Euro.

Review I'm referencing can be found here if interested: http://haber-yachts.com/uploads/imag..._HABER34C4.pdf

Thanks for posting that one Weavis - I'm becoming quite a fan of Motor-sailers even if it seems to be a dirty word to some here.

My reason for thinking a motor-sailer may be a good way to go is - They sail fine downwind and reaching, and who wants to bash upwind when you can economically motor in those sometimes uncomfortable upwind situations?

Add in the minimal draft (beachable even), awesome pilothouse, salty appearance (subjective granted), etc... and they really tick the boxes!
HI Sondor.

I find it difficult to equate "sailing" with anything other than a person being on a boat out there. Yet, as so many times observed, there is a war that erupts when something 'not yachty' enough is mentioned. I personally like Catamarans. I like being on the flat when sailing. I like being dry. I like the motion and I like the space. I DONT like the price.

I also like trawler yachts and tugs (without sails). I love big Motor yachts. I dont like the costs associated.

Motor sailers, a real motor sailer is again a vessel with the emphasis on the sailing but with less yachtiness in its lines. It is differentiated from sail assisted vessels which really is a motor vessel with sails used for stability.

I love the space a motor sailer gives with the wheelhouse. To me it is the best of both worlds. a good steady sailboat and a well designed motor cruiser.

addendum: This is not in response to Jims post... I wrote this before JIm posted and I was just 30 seconds behind him.
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Old 26-05-2014, 02:51   #33
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Re: Motor Sailers

This is a vessel I fell in love with. Like a movie actor, can only be worshipped from afar. Waaaaay to expensive for me.
Twin screws........ huge interior, great sailer.

I was rather surprised when one or two stated it was ugly... but thats the beauty of personal choice. Not all of us want to be married to Julia Roberts.

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Old 26-05-2014, 02:58   #34
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Re: Motor Sailers

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Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
Sondor, I hope that you don't think that motoring upwind in one of these, in "bashing" conditions, will be much pleasanter than in a proper sailing yacht. You may stay drier in the pilot house, but I doubt if there is a big comfort advantage.
Jim
Actually Jim with a fine entry motor sailor like mine and partially furled loose footed sails in +25 to 35knt apparent wind you can close haul very comfortably under low rpm motorsail.

Sails are not hard pressed or boat heeled hard over as you are sharing the load, so you can pretty much fix sheets on a heavy boat like mine. (46t)

When a large set comes up, a short ease to leeward lifts the weather side and you stay nice and dry, bellying down the waves backside.

The big difference is that Propulsion makes it easier to recover and play the waves while chugging along at 7knts.

I can do the same purely under sail, but I can't point as high or recover as quickly while maintaining SOG or experience a more relaxed under canvassed passage hard to Windward.

Basically I set the sails for steadying heel and conservative drive then adjust RPM for the optimum speed based on wave period.
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Old 26-05-2014, 03:09   #35
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Re: Motor Sailers

Best of both world's.
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Old 26-05-2014, 06:17   #36
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Re: Motor Sailers

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10% of conflicts are due to different opinions. 90% by the tone of voice.
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Old 26-05-2014, 07:32   #37
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Re: Motor Sailers

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Originally Posted by Pelagic View Post
Actually Jim with a fine entry motor sailor like mine and partially furled loose footed sails in +25 to 35knt apparent wind you can close haul very comfortably under low rpm motorsail.

Sails are not hard pressed or boat heeled hard over as you are sharing the load, so you can pretty much fix sheets on a heavy boat like mine. (46t)

When a large set comes up, a short ease to leeward lifts the weather side and you stay nice and dry, bellying down the waves backside.

The big difference is that Propulsion makes it easier to recover and play the waves while chugging along at 7knts.

I can do the same purely under sail, but I can't point as high or recover as quickly while maintaining SOG or experience a more relaxed under canvassed passage hard to Windward.

Basically I set the sails for steadying heel and conservative drive then adjust RPM for the optimum speed based on wave period.




+1! Synergy...
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Old 26-05-2014, 09:00   #38
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Re: Motor Sailers

I ama nordhavn fan!
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Old 26-05-2014, 10:24   #39
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Re: Motor Sailers

So very beautiful

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Old 26-05-2014, 12:33   #40
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Re: Motor Sailers

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Nice! Mini version of my boat...
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Old 26-05-2014, 13:33   #41
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Re: Motor Sailers

nice boat they are heeling too much and they don;t deserve such as nice boat as much as i do. Just sayin!
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Old 26-05-2014, 13:50   #42
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Re: Motor Sailers

I still like the Haber best.......
After a Catamaran of course...
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Old 26-05-2014, 13:53   #43
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Re: Motor Sailers

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If I ever want motorsailer myself, it would be Nauticat for sure...
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Old 26-05-2014, 15:10   #44
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Re: Motor Sailers

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Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
Sondor, I hope that you don't think that motoring upwind in one of these, in "bashing" conditions, will be much pleasanter than in a proper sailing yacht. You may stay drier in the pilot house, but I doubt if there is a big comfort advantage.

And while they do sail downwind and reach ok, they will always be somewhat slower than their sailing brethren. I'm not being condescending here... they have generally smaller sail plans and more wetted area that true sailors of similar size.

Neither of these quibbles mean that a m/s can't fit your cruising plans, but there are prices to pay for the comfort!

Cheers,

Jim
Hi Jim,

I appreciate your feedback on this thread (and your feedback in general on the forum for the record!) and will try to locate one I can go out on to see first-hand the pros/cons - The concept in general intrigues me, but I am a bit concerned that a motorsailer does neither motoring or sailing well as been stated at times by others.

While the Haber 34c4 appears to be an ideal example of a motorsailer done right, the price is a bit steep - I'll be curious to see how a "lesser" motorsailer compares...
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Old 26-05-2014, 15:12   #45
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Re: Motor Sailers

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Originally Posted by weavis View Post
HI Sondor.

I find it difficult to equate "sailing" with anything other than a person being on a boat out there. Yet, as so many times observed, there is a war that erupts when something 'not yachty' enough is mentioned. I personally like Catamarans. I like being on the flat when sailing. I like being dry. I like the motion and I like the space. I DONT like the price.

I also like trawler yachts and tugs (without sails). I love big Motor yachts. I dont like the costs associated.

Motor sailers, a real motor sailer is again a vessel with the emphasis on the sailing but with less yachtiness in its lines. It is differentiated from sail assisted vessels which really is a motor vessel with sails used for stability.

I love the space a motor sailer gives with the wheelhouse. To me it is the best of both worlds. a good steady sailboat and a well designed motor cruiser.

addendum: This is not in response to Jims post... I wrote this before JIm posted and I was just 30 seconds behind him.
Hey Weavis,

I agree with ALL your above points. That may be a first for me!
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