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Old 23-02-2014, 02:06   #16
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Re: Most Sea kindly Blue Water w Shoal Draft

I reckon you are too keen on the shoal draft thing. The problem is that shoal draft boats don't sail well, especially to windward. They have an unfortunate tendency to go sideways but when you are aboard you can't sense it. What you have to do is compare the binnacle compass with the electronic course over ground reading.

Take a look at the Hylas 46 and 49 which tick all your boxes except draft. They both draw around 6'6" which is a good medium depth for a cruising keel. My own experience of the best anchorages is that they are full of the guys with the noisiest generators. I like being out the back.
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Old 23-02-2014, 02:20   #17
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Re: Most Sea kindly Blue Water w Shoal Draft

You may want to consider a Moody with a scheel keel, well built and laid out and good sailing qualities offshore. Not that many in the USA b ut there are some around. Big following in Europe.
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Old 23-02-2014, 05:34   #18
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Re: Most Sea kindly Blue Water w Shoal Draft

Don't forget to look at catamarans. In your price range, a catamaran offers much more internal volume, living space, shoal draft and an awesome 360 degree waterfront view from your living room.... Plus they seem to be more stable while at anchor. Start by checking out a Lagoon 450. Our next boat, if there ever is a next boat, will be a Sunreef 58 catamaran.
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Old 23-02-2014, 05:56   #19
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Re: Most Sea kindly Blue Water w Shoal Draft

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I reckon you are too keen on the shoal draft thing. The problem is that shoal draft boats don't sail well, especially to windward. They have an unfortunate tendency to go sideways but when you are aboard you can't sense it. What you have to do is compare the binnacle compass with the electronic course over ground reading.

Take a look at the Hylas 46 and 49 which tick all your boxes except draft. They both draw around 6'6" which is a good medium depth for a cruising keel. My own experience of the best anchorages is that they are full of the guys with the noisiest generators. I like being out the back.

WHAT!!! shoal draft don't sail well??? we sail a jeanneau ds40 that use to have 4'11" draft and now a 5'2" draft (when she is really loaded down) and she sails great -- no idea where you sail but we have sailed her from miami to maine twice around the bahamas twice from maimi to mexico to colombia to jamaica to trinidad to antiqua to azores to portugal to tunisia and a lot of that is to windward -- she tracks well and sails like a champ

and it is clear that you have not been to the bahamas or if you have you have forgotten how shallow it is in a lot of places -- 6'6" (there is a shoal draft version at 5'5") - lots of places you simply can not go with that depth let alone the height of the hylas 46 at 63' she barely gets under the icw bridges --
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Old 23-02-2014, 06:04   #20
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Re: Most Sea kindly Blue Water w Shoal Draft

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Don't forget to look at catamarans. In your price range, a catamaran offers much more internal volume, living space, shoal draft and an awesome 360 degree waterfront view from your living room.... Plus they seem to be more stable while at anchor. Start by checking out a Lagoon 450. Our next boat, if there ever is a next boat, will be a Sunreef 58 catamaran.

i would agree with the above -- for your uses of having a good life aboard and lots of space for guests -- this really makes sense -- we have cruised with a lot of cats when we were in the caribbean and they sailed well short handed (2 people) -- and have a lot of room and very comfortable --
but as noted above watch the mast height -- down the icw it is an issue as is the draft
and we have followed and know a lot of cats that have done the great dismal route so no issues if you want that route

there are a lot of folks - and i mean a lot - that do what you want to do each and every year and it can be very enjoyable

and a lot of what you are going to be doing is really extended coastal cruising unless you decide to go farther afield -- so think about that
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Old 23-02-2014, 07:00   #21
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Re: Most Sea kindly Blue Water w Shoal Draft

Expand your search to include Europe and the Med., there are many nice boats for sale over there at good prices. Plus, there's so much more for a retired couple to see over there. Don't limit yourself to just sailing up and down the east coast.

We live in Massachusetts 7-8 months of the year.
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Old 23-02-2014, 07:19   #22
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Re: Most Sea kindly Blue Water w Shoal Draft

We have a Bristol 45.5, we love her . Very pretty , sea kindly , 5 foot draft with center board up and 11 feet with her down. Build quality is amazing . Take a look at the 51.1 or the 53.3/54,4ketch . They have 3 full cabins with a similar draft to ours .

1986 Bristol 54.4 Center Cockpit Ketch Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

At 269$ you would have lots of money left over for the cruising kitty or getting the boat just the way you want it .

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Old 23-02-2014, 09:56   #23
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Re: Most Sea kindly Blue Water w Shoal Draft

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WHAT!!! shoal draft don't sail well??? we sail a jeanneau ds40 that use to have 4'11" draft and now a 5'2" draft (when she is really loaded down) and she sails great -- no idea where you sail but we have sailed her from miami to maine twice around the bahamas twice from maimi to mexico to colombia to jamaica to trinidad to antiqua to azores to portugal to tunisia and a lot of that is to windward -- she tracks well and sails like a champ

and it is clear that you have not been to the bahamas or if you have you have forgotten how shallow it is in a lot of places -- 6'6" (there is a shoal draft version at 5'5") - lots of places you simply can not go with that depth let alone the height of the hylas 46 at 63' she barely gets under the icw bridges --
That's the whole point of 63' and 64' rigs, to "barely" get under ICW bridges. As long as you make it under without ever hitting anything, do you really care about how much clearance you had? Unless you live along the ICW so need to pass under a bridge to get to the sea, I think this is probably a higher priority for some folks than it logically should be. I've sailed up and down the east coast a few times but never via the inland waterway. I'd sort of like to do at least part of it once just to check out some of the towns along the way, but from what I've heard from friends who have done it, you can expect to do a whole lot of motoring and I prefer to sail. I had to motor along the inland waterway in Florida for a few hours at the beginning of a delivery up the east coast and was more than ready to head out after that short amount of time so don't know how I'd do in that environment for day after day after weeks at a time. Also, even with a boat with 5' draft there will be many places along the ICW where the channel has shifted a little so you can expect to "touch bottom" every now and then. Some good friends in their 5'5" Baba 35 went aground on a falling tide in the mud so no structural worries. Their plan was to just put out an anchor and wait for the next high tide to motor off, no big deal. But as the tide went out their boat gradually laid down facing towards the channel and along came a big, shoal draft ferry boat putting out a sizeable wake which covered their deck and filled their cockpit with muddy water. That was their ICW "last straw."

I have sailed in the Bahamas and you're right that it's pretty amazing how many harbors where there's a 6' bar you have to pass over to get inside or close to where you want to ultimately get to. But, for those harbors there seems to usually be an alternate anchorage a little outside so if you have a decent RIB and outboard, it's really no problem to get to shore in just a couple of minutes.

Considering the whole US east coast and Caribbean, except for in these 2 areas and all the time while underway at sea, a deeper draft boat will be more desirable than its shoal draft cousin, IMHO.

It's an individual choice, but before making the decision I think it's important to recognize that it IS a tradeoff with sailing performance and stability on one side, and convenience of access in a few localized areas on the other. Your shoal draft boat that "sails like a champ" isn't necessarily the wrong choice, depending on your cruising priorities, but it would sail even better if it had a deeper keel.
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Old 23-02-2014, 10:41   #24
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Re: Most Sea kindly Blue Water w Shoal Draft

Thanks everyone, you've given me a lot to think about. Kenomac, I have looked at European boats a bit, am interested in doing the Canal du Midi, etc. I love Europe, I don't really want to limit myself, but I'm not sure if I can find an everything boat. I also have to work up enough courage & skill to tackle a transatlantic crossing. Do you sail back and forth every year? I would love to hear from any of you regarding that.
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Old 23-02-2014, 10:43   #25
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Re: Most Sea kindly Blue Water w Shoal Draft

If you're planning most of your sailing for the Bahamas and Florida, draft is a pretty significant consideration.
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Old 23-02-2014, 11:23   #26
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Re: Most Sea kindly Blue Water w Shoal Draft

one word....Ovni...
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Old 23-02-2014, 12:47   #27
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Re: Most Sea kindly Blue Water w Shoal Draft

I think the Caliber 40 meets all of your requirements and is not too big.
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Old 23-02-2014, 13:09   #28
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Re: Most Sea kindly Blue Water w Shoal Draft

You can't beat a Southerly, take less than 3' draft, but extended to 9' draft.

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Old 23-02-2014, 14:19   #29
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Re: Most Sea kindly Blue Water w Shoal Draft

I live on an Island Packet 460...I learned to sail on it last season and hope to sail it South to Mexico this September...only draws 5' and 42' height above water is handy.

Easily sleeps 6 but 4 people is better since there are 2 staterooms each with a full sized head attached.

Simple to single hand. There aren't too many for sale but you can find them under 500k.
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Old 23-02-2014, 14:53   #30
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Re: Most Sea kindly Blue Water w Shoal Draft

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I live on an Island Packet 460...I learned to sail on it last season and hope to sail it South to Mexico this September...only draws 5' and 42' height above water is handy.

.
What is handy 42' above the water, and in what way is it handy?
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