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Old 29-04-2018, 04:35   #1
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Morgan 462 Ketch Replacement Halyards

Help please...I have a 1981 Morgan 462 Ketch. I need new genoa, main and mizzen halyards.
The owners manual states the main and mizzen are 3/8 inch and the genoa is wire rope. My gear has obviously been changed at some point.

The main and genoa are all rope and at least 1/2 while the Mizzen is 7/16.

I do not feel that 3/8 is suitable for sails this size? Maybe okay on the mizzen? Your recommendations. I am making a couple of assumptions, the sheaves have been changed as there is no binding or issues with any of the halyards.

Who do you recommend for a rigging house, I have none local and will need new shackles pre spliced.
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Old 29-04-2018, 05:29   #2
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Re: Morgan 462 Ketch Replacement Halyards

Where are you local to?

3/8” I feel is adequate, especially so if you use spectra or dyneema cored halyards.
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Old 29-04-2018, 05:37   #3
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Re: Morgan 462 Ketch Replacement Halyards

For a cruising boat most riggers recommend polypropylene for halyards like Sta-Set from New England ropes or similar from other suppliers. If you're a little more performance oriented or don't mind a little extra cost then one of the more high tech cored ropes gives less stretch. I agree that 3/8" seems a little small. Online guides recommend 7/16" min for the main and jib halyards. Mizzen you could probably do 3/8" however, a little larger sizes can be a bit easier on the hands.

I wouldn't assume the sheaves have been changed. On older boats many sheaves were designed for wire and rope and usually work OK with all rope.

As far as a rigger, you don't mention where you are. The forum is international with members from all over the globe. USA I'm guessing? East or west coast, north or south?
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Old 29-04-2018, 06:17   #4
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Re: Morgan 462 Ketch Replacement Halyards

Sta-set is Polyester not polypropylene. Polypropylene is not u.v. resistant and would also be terrible on your hands. Sta-set is my go to line. It’s good stuff.

Are your halyard winches self tailing? If so they may dictate your diameter range. If they are not your hands will be much happier with the current size than 3/8.
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Old 29-04-2018, 06:58   #5
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Re: Morgan 462 Ketch Replacement Halyards

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Originally Posted by dfelsent View Post
Sta-set is Polyester not polypropylene. Polypropylene is not u.v. resistant and would also be terrible on your hands. Sta-set is my go to line. It’s good stuff.

Sorry, had a brain fart. You are absolutely correct, Sta-Set is polyester. Polypropylene is typically found in the cheap, floating lines like used in ski ropes, one of the few applications where polypropylene is appropriate.
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Old 29-04-2018, 08:16   #6
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Re: Morgan 462 Ketch Replacement Halyards

Welcome to CF, wesswank! Fellow Morgan 462 owner here, located in the Fort Lauderdale area. There is/was a 1981 M462 for sale in FLL, is that the one you bought?

I am planning on replacing my running rigging soon, but am waiting until I'm a little closer to my departure for the wild blue yonder. I spoke with a couple of vendors in the area about new halyards, sheets, etc. I'll see if I can find the quotes I got with all the details...

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David.
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Old 29-04-2018, 08:47   #7
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Re: Morgan 462 Ketch Replacement Halyards

38 morgan here Stay set 3/8 will do the job strength wise , you can go a little larger just for comfort, buy not necessary at all. Look at the working load and breaking strength.
And if you get new ever 10 years you will be way ahead of wear out !
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Old 29-04-2018, 10:07   #8
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Re: Morgan 462 Ketch Replacement Halyards

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailmonkey View Post
Where are you local to?

3/8” I feel is adequate, especially so if you use spectra or dyneema cored halyards.
This. I replaced 1/2 inch Dacron with 1/2 inch Dacron with 6 mm Dyneema core just for the hand feel, existing sheave groove width and existing stoppers. But the difference is significant in terms of less stretch. So if you stay with 3/8" but with (for example) 4 mm Dyneema cores, you are very much ahead of the game.

I don't feel Dyneema cores are preferable in a cruising context for sheets, but for halyards, they are a real improvement.
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Old 29-04-2018, 11:01   #9
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Re: Morgan 462 Ketch Replacement Halyards

Our 43' Taswell (Cutter rig) received all new halyards when we redidnour mast and rigging. Originally, we had all cable. We switched and went with 6mm Dyneema-and had no issues since we made the change in 2011-light weight, small size, easy to handle, no stretch, etc, etc. But one big decision point may be the type of rig you have. Our sails (all 3=H/S, S/S, and M/S) are on roller furlers, so the only time we mess with the halyards is at the start and end of the season. If yours is a conventional rig, where you need to pull on the halyards every time you want to set a sail, and if you don't have electric (or hyd) winches, you'd surely want to find some line that is kind to your hands. Lots of variables.
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Old 29-04-2018, 11:10   #10
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Re: Morgan 462 Ketch Replacement Halyards

I have a Morgan 462- I replaced the 3/8 halyards with 9/16 Sta-set back in 1998. Yes it is overkill, but at the time there was no Dyneema or whatever, or at least I didn't know about it, and I figured 9/16 would have less stretch than 1/2 and will last longer and when I go aloft I like the look of a big line. Existing sheaves and winches on my M462 were fine with 9/16.
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Old 29-04-2018, 11:25   #11
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Re: Morgan 462 Ketch Replacement Halyards

All Dacron halyards like StaSet will have significant stretch with standard double braid or a little less with parallel core like StaSet X. Exotic cored line will have significantly less to virtually no stretch with resistance to stretch commensurate with price. FWIW, have 5/16" T900 exotic on the main halyard on my 28' boat and it has virtually no stretch, possibly less than the wire halyard it replaced. 3.8" exotic cored rope would be more than adequate for strength for a boat your size but might go up to 7/16" for hand comfort. If you're sticking with dacron, 1/2" to compensate for stretch would be a good idea. NE VPC or other hybrid cored line which are a middle ground between all Dacron and full exotic cored line for stretch. VPC has worked out for me for other halyards on my 35' boat.

Back in the good old days of hank on jibs, headsail halyards needed to have low stretch halyards to reduce scalloping between hanks as the wind speed varied. With the foils of roller furling, headsail tension is much less a factor and doesn't really need larger or extreme low stretch halyards.

Have used rope halyards in the wire/rope dual purpose sheaves for more than 40 years. You shouldn't have a problem switching to rope with those masthead sheaves. Still not a bad idea to go up and have a look at the sheaves to be sure that the wire hasn't caused burrs that might abraid a rope halyard. Actually going to the masthead and having a look around is a good idea. No telling what you'll find up there. When I got my ATN Mast Climber went to the mast head just to try it out. Found two broken strands in the headstay wire at the masthead swage. Possibly saved myself from a dismasting.
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Old 29-04-2018, 14:44   #12
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Re: Morgan 462 Ketch Replacement Halyards

Our 461 has larger sails in all regards/instances than your 462...

When we got it, we had 9/16 sheets and halyards.

We went with 7/16 StaySetX for halyards and StaySet for sheets.

When we had some minor damage on the genoa sheet (looped, not knotted), and installed running backs, we took that sheet and used it (cut in half) for those blocks. We went with 1/2" Regatta Braid, which is very much nicer on the hands and as floppy as a wet noodle. It's now 5 years old and doing great.

Your winches (assuming they are self-tailing) will perhaps determine the smallest you can go. It's possible you can drop to 3/8 in terms of strength, but having that on our dinghy davits' blocks, I can tell you that it's not much to grab (thin = easy-to-slip-through-your-hands), with even that small weight.

YMMV but I'd suggest 7/16 StaySetX (next to no stretch) premade by West (or Port if you have a pro card) with shackles for the halyards, and Regatta Braid for the sheets (the sheets - unless you're racing - likely don't need to be next-to-no stretch), as it's very much easier on the hands.

L8R

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