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Old 11-09-2016, 05:25   #31
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Re: Moody 54

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Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post

Also worth considering is just buying new. I would never buy a car new, but boats have different dynamics of price depreciation vs amortization of the systems. I have come around to thinking that it's actually worthwhile to buy new.
I can't understand why you think this. I think the opposite is true. They don't make Moody 54s any more, but if you do a comparison with an Oyster. You could have bought a new 54, 7 years ago, (the time you bought your boat) for about 900,000. It would be worth 450,000 now. If you had bought a used one 7 years ago it would have cost 450,000 and be worth 350,000 now. Maybe you would have spent 60,000 on refit items - sails and rigging mainly in the interim, so your cost would have been 450k new vs 160k used. Then factor in a massive difference in lost interest and higher insurance and you are looking at maybe 600k vs 190k. 410k is a high price for a virgin and I bet your cost savings were better still.

Of course, if you are someone with plenty of cash, maybe having just sold a business or got a pension payout and you have nothing better to do with it then a new one does make more sense. It is the existence of such people which allows used boat owners to get the bargains they enjoy.
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Old 11-09-2016, 05:52   #32
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Re: Moody 54

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Originally Posted by poiu View Post
I can't understand why you think this. I think the opposite is true. They don't make Moody 54s any more, but if you do a comparison with an Oyster. You could have bought a new 54, 7 years ago, (the time you bought your boat) for about 900,000. It would be worth 450,000 now. If you had bought a used one 7 years ago it would have cost 450,000 and be worth 350,000 now. Maybe you would have spent 60,000 on refit items - sails and rigging mainly in the interim, so your cost would have been 450k new vs 160k used. Then factor in a massive difference in lost interest and higher insurance and you are looking at maybe 600k vs 190k. 410k is a high price for a virgin and I bet your cost savings were better still.

Of course, if you are someone with plenty of cash, maybe having just sold a business or got a pension payout and you have nothing better to do with it then a new one does make more sense. It is the existence of such people which allows used boat owners to get the bargains they enjoy.

Oysters are a special case -- they are sold at a premium to comparable boats when new and then depreciate fast, like cars. I agree that used Oysters are a bargain and new ones are not. But it is different with other boats. My boat cost 20% less than an Oyster 53 when new, but is now worth the same, despite the "orphan" status of English Moodys.

I think that this is because of the Oyster clientele -- who are overwhelmingly new boat buyers, which leaves a plentiful supply of used ones. And so there are even some great bargains among older Oysters. I know someone who bought an Oyster 53 with knackered deck that no one would touch (I looked at the same boat myself when I was shopping!), for a song. Did the deck himself and ended up with a good Oyster for probably less money than he would have paid for a Beneteau. Other than the deck, the boat was in decent shape. Smart guy.


I (on the other hand! ) paid very close to the new price for my then 8 year old Moody. Maybe 20% - 25% less if you consider the real equipped sailaway price. The boat was very lightly used (160 generator hours; 830 engine hours) and in really beautiful condition, so I thought I was getting a virtually new boat and that the price was ok. But in fact many of the systems have time-limited rather than hours-limited useful lives, and I had replaced everything within a few years. In the end, it was not really cheaper than buying a new one would have been (if it had been possible at the time, which it was not), and it was a lot more trouble.


A friend of mine who is a helicopter pilot said that a helicopter is really a collection of different parts flying in formation. They are all replaced over and ever again, so that soon little is left of the original ship. Complex cruising boats are much the same. Big advantage of a new boat is that you are starting with everything at zero hours.


My next boat I'm going to have custom built, and out of metal, not plastic. I love my M54, but it is not what I need for my kind of cruising in very many respects*. Actually there's not any series produced boat which really suits me. This is not economically efficient and will be possible only if -- yes, I sell a business. But it will zero hours on everything and exactly what I want.


* What the M54 doesn't have, which I need:

1. Pilothouse with indoor watchstanding position
2. Watertight compartments
3. Much more deck storage, including sail storage
4. Truly walk-in engine room with workshop
5. Much more technical space and rational long-term storage space.
6. Dinghy storage suitable for long rough passages
7. Proper foredeck with samson post, heavy duty horizontal windlass, fairleads, etc.
8. Central storage of anchor chain

the list goes on, but that will give a flavor.
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Old 11-09-2016, 07:58   #33
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Re: Moody 54

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
Oysters are a special case -- they are sold at a premium to comparable boats when new and then depreciate fast, like cars. I agree that used Oysters are a bargain and new ones are not. But it is different with other boats. My boat cost 20% less than an Oyster 53 when new, but is now worth the same, despite the "orphan" status of English Moodys.

I think that this is because of the Oyster clientele -- who are overwhelmingly new boat buyers, which leaves a plentiful supply of used ones. And so there are even some great bargains among older Oysters. I know someone who bought an Oyster 53 with knackered deck that no one would touch (I looked at the same boat myself when I was shopping!), for a song. Did the deck himself and ended up with a good Oyster for probably less money than he would have paid for a Beneteau. Other than the deck, the boat was in decent shape. Smart guy.


I (on the other hand! ) paid very close to the new price for my then 8 year old Moody. Maybe 20% - 25% less if you consider the real equipped sailaway price. The boat was very lightly used (160 generator hours; 830 engine hours) and in really beautiful condition, so I thought I was getting a virtually new boat and that the price was ok. But in fact many of the systems have time-limited rather than hours-limited useful lives, and I had replaced everything within a few years. In the end, it was not really cheaper than buying a new one would have been (if it had been possible at the time, which it was not), and it was a lot more trouble.


A friend of mine who is a helicopter pilot said that a helicopter is really a collection of different parts flying in formation. They are all replaced over and ever again, so that soon little is left of the original ship. Complex cruising boats are much the same. Big advantage of a new boat is that you are starting with everything at zero hours.


My next boat I'm going to have custom built, and out of metal, not plastic. I love my M54, but it is not what I need for my kind of cruising in very many respects*. Actually there's not any series produced boat which really suits me. This is not economically efficient and will be possible only if -- yes, I sell a business. But it will zero hours on everything and exactly what I want.


* What the M54 doesn't have, which I need:

1. Pilothouse with indoor watchstanding position
2. Watertight compartments
3. Much more deck storage, including sail storage
4. Truly walk-in engine room with workshop
5. Much more technical space and rational long-term storage space.
6. Dinghy storage suitable for long rough passages
7. Proper foredeck with samson post, heavy duty horizontal windlass, fairleads, etc.
8. Central storage of anchor chain

the list goes on, but that will give a flavor.
I was looking for a boat at exactly the time you bought yours and the Moody 54 as well as the Oyster 53 and 56 was on my target list. You actually bought yours before I got round to visit it. I still have all the sales details of many of these boats and I just checked my info. The Moody and the Oysters have both depreciated a little over the time until now - 10% to 20% for both makes of boat. The sample size isn't great enough to say if Moody depreciated by 10% and Oyster by 20%. It's close enough to not matter really.

As to things wearing out, the biggest costs on a boat have the potential to not wear out at all. The fit out and hull account for 2/3 of the boat's cost. If the wood is taken care of and doesn't get wet and you don't get osmosis on the hull then you can expect that 2/3 of the boat incurring little maintenance costs.

On the other hand, a big advantage to buying new is that boats have improved recently in many ways. Hull design thinking has evolved and hulls now often have much more form stability. Modern construction methods and materials are lighter, so low wind performance is much better. A lot of equipment is better too.
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Old 11-09-2016, 08:08   #34
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Re: Moody 54

A new boat is not in our forecast. That was our original plan with passport but when we worked out all the numbers, after selling the three kids we would still have to work until we died. Then there would be no time to actually use the boat...


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Old 11-09-2016, 09:28   #35
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Re: Moody 54

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Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
How in the world do they actually keep a Moody 54 in "heated storage?" Do they take the mast down anually?
Yes they do but not too many stump up the buck$ for the service. My guess is that in New England about 1/100 sailboats actually do it. Hinckleys is one of the few yards to offer heated sheds and I'm guessing that the whole deal for the winter including labor would cost around $20,000. Most are shrink wrapped every winter with mast in which for a 54 would probably cost around $4,000 including haulout and launch. On the other hand plenty of motor boats are stored in sheds.
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Old 12-09-2016, 02:43   #36
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Re: Moody 54

Hello Brookiesailor,

Less than a small hour away from Amsterdam(by car) you can visit Medemblik.
This is where Contest Yachts are located,they have some nice used ones on offer,the 50 and 55 are n many ways comparable to the Moodys,the yard however is still in business.They have their own brokerage service aswell;




Yachts for sale | Contest Brokerage








Good luck and welcome to the Netherlands!

Cheers,

JJ
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Old 08-10-2016, 02:47   #37
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Re: Moody 54

Just an update. Hubby has had a job interview back in the states. Put life on hold again. The weekend we were supposed to go look at the boat he had the flu 😞. Then company has been here the next two weekends. We are playing catch up this weekend. So maybe next weekend...


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Old 08-10-2016, 08:11   #38
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Re: Moody 54

Without any bias whatsoever.... if you look at Moody 54's, then you should also consider Amel 54's.

So well thought out, they are in a league of their own. (Opinion) :-)
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Old 27-10-2016, 15:42   #39
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Re: Moody 54

Of course my life revolves around chaos. I will be moving from Amsterdam to the us in the next two weeks. Not a good time to buy a boat
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