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Old 09-09-2016, 07:45   #16
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Re: Moody 54

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
How in the world do they actually keep a Moody 54 in "heated storage?" Do they take the mast down anually?
Is this Moody the one in Enkhuizen? We berthed near another M54 in Enkhuizen a couple of weeks ago.

If it's that boat -- it looks pretty nice from the outside. If it has lived in Enkhuizen and has been used in Ijsselmeer, it might be one of the shoal draft ones, since the normal draft M54 is not really suitable for those waters.

Edit: I see on YachtWorld an M54 in Enkhuizen for sale. With the favorable dollar rate, it's going for less than half a million dollars -- a great bargain if it is in good condition. I believe it's the one I was berthed near and it looks (from the outside anyway) to be in nice condition.

It's here:

2004 Moody 54 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

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It is indeed shoal draft, which reduces its value somewhat. But is desirable in those waters.
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Old 09-09-2016, 07:58   #17
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Re: Moody 54

More snaps of the boat for sale:

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Looks pretty nice from the photos.

Electronics are outdated, however, and at this age, it's probably time for sails and standing rigging.

But you could invest about 100 000 euros into a modest refit and still have less than $600k invested, and you'd have a really nice boat.


Concerning equipment: This boat has the very desirable hydraulic furlers.

However, it appears to have no generator!! I didn't know any M54's were delivered without a genset. Hard to imagine doing any serious cruising on a boat like this -- which is jam-packed with electrical equipment -- without a genset. That would be fairly expensive to retrofit, probably 15k to 20k euros.
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Old 09-09-2016, 08:43   #18
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Re: Moody 54

My impression of that boat was definitely not stiff. I compare to boats like say Beneteau 55 (Sense). In my own scale, I would say 'moderate stiffness'. Middle of the road.

Upwind (and it was all upwind), we had to reef once the wind hit 15 knots over the deck. This was some challenge as she was cutter rigged but not a proper cutter rig: once we cleared away the (oversize!) genoa and with the main reefed, she slowed down and lacked punch against low (less than 10ft) but packed, waves. We had slab reefing and I believe an inmast reefing could work better on this boat.

Other than odd sail/reef controls, the boat was very easy to drive and comfortable under way. Two experienced and strong men onboard controlled everything with ease in somewhat boisterous conditions (25 to 35 knots upwind work). Not a wet boat either. (big +)

Moto-sailing upwind she was a treat. Not quite as good as modern HR boats but way above and beyond any modern light hull.

One area to check is if yours has the kind of davits that look like made out of very shiny SS box profiles (a common make on UK boats of that era and class) - ours were ... not quite well attached to the boat. (Maybe a post mod problem).

Inside, I loved that boat. I like it way more than Oysters, HRs or Contests. It felt lighter and better laid out.

I think your only challenge is the condition of the one you buy. Otherwise the design has everything one likes in boats of that era.

(For a mom and pop crew and getting older, I would go for a quality inmast furling boat.)

Have fun chasing your rabbit!
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Old 09-09-2016, 09:12   #19
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Re: Moody 54

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Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
My impression of that boat was definitely not stiff. I compare to boats like say Beneteau 55 (Sense). In my own scale, I would say 'moderate stiffness'. Middle of the road.

Upwind (and it was all upwind), we had to reef once the wind hit 15 knots over the deck. This was some challenge as she was cutter rigged but not a proper cutter rig: once we cleared away the (oversize!) genoa and with the main reefed, she slowed down and lacked punch against low (less than 10ft) but packed, waves. We had slab reefing and I believe an inmast reefing could work better on this boat.

Other than odd sail/reef controls, the boat was very easy to drive and comfortable under way. Two experienced and strong men onboard controlled everything with ease in somewhat boisterous conditions (25 to 35 knots upwind work). Not a wet boat either. (big +)

Moto-sailing upwind she was a treat. Not quite as good as modern HR boats but way above and beyond any modern light hull.

One area to check is if yours has the kind of davits that look like made out of very shiny SS box profiles (a common make on UK boats of that era and class) - ours were ... not quite well attached to the boat. (Maybe a post mod problem).

Inside, I loved that boat. I like it way more than Oysters, HRs or Contests. It felt lighter and better laid out.

I think your only challenge is the condition of the one you buy. Otherwise the design has everything one likes in boats of that era.

(For a mom and pop crew and getting older, I would go for a quality inmast furling boat.)

Have fun chasing your rabbit!
b.
Yes, I agree that the M54 does not have as much form stability as a boat like a Sense 55. But more than a Passport.

My boat has in-mast furling so I can't say how the boat would be with slab reefing. I am ambivalent about in-mast furling, and my next boat won't have it, but on this boat it works pretty well and it certainly doesn't have any glaring disadvantages. I'm now using a carbon laminate mainsail with vertical battens, and this performs very well -- maybe not quite as well as a proper roachy full batten main, but nonetheless very well.

I'm surprised the M54 you sailed had a genoa. My boat, and other M54's I've seen, have moderate (120%) yankee jibs with a high clew. Certainly no reefing before 20 knots apparent at least.

Besides the yankee, I have a 95% blade jib, which I greatly prefer to the yankee, as it performs better in almost all conditions, everything but downwind in light conditions.

This is the kind of performance I get out of the small blade jib even in lightish conditions:

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That's 12 knots of true wind.

I've never reefed the blade jib (it doesn't even have a reef position); it is fine up to 30 knots apparent, whereupon I put it away and use the staysail alone.

Sailing performance of the M54 is very good indeed; it has a small rig (SA/D of only 16.5) but high aspect, so very low windage and really flies in the conditions we have up here, especially upwind. The boat is also set up for the hard-core sailor -- 8 cockpit winches, two mast winches, everything good out of the Selden catalogue including heavy duty towable jib cars, traveler with dedicated winches, etc., etc.


You are right to mention the davits -- these boats were mostly delivered with Simpson-Cooney electric davits which are horrendous carp. Made my life miserable until I finally amputated them last year.

Another flaw is the ridiculous hydraulic lift system for the transom platform which causes constant problems with the rams breaking loose, etc. I also amputated that, and lift the platform with a rope.


I'm glad you liked the inside of the boat, which indeed is fairly nice, certainly spacious and comfortable, but I actually prefer the Oyster layout with the higher raised salon and better views, plus the Moody cabinetry is made with inferior hinges and latches which are a fair amount of trouble -- Oyster is much better in this department. The Moody is also a raised salon but the forward saloon windows are kind of vestigial, good only for looking at the sails. The Oyster forward saloon window allows you to look out over the bow (!), and is opening even (!!), which is marvelous. The Oyster doghouse is higher.
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Old 09-09-2016, 09:39   #20
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Re: Moody 54

Quote:
How in the world do they actually keep a Moody 54 in "heated storage?" Do they take the mast down anually?
Done 'here' 'all the time' ... Most masts are unstepped here in Germany for winter storage even if you put your boat outside on the hard, though in the Netherlands you see more boats with standing rigging on the hard in winter.

Quote:
However, it appears to have no generator!!
Spec at yachtworld lists a generator under Electrical Equipment

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Old 09-09-2016, 12:40   #21
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Re: Moody 54

Wow, you go to dinner and you get all this! Thanks! That is the boat we hope to look at. It is interesting that you say that the shallow drought will diminish its value as it is one of the higher priced Moody's in the area for that year. Will take that into consideration.

In truth I expect that boats of this age and a little newer are going up for sale because the people know the systems need to be replaced and they have gotten their enjoyment out of the boat and don't want to sink any more money into it. Most likely it would be a rare find to have a boat in our price range with updated electronics and new sails... And actually I haven't seen many outside our price range in this age group either. The sad thing about electronics is like computers they are almost obsolete as soon as you install them....

Going into this with our eyes wide open is the idea. So thank you for your suggestions of things to look at for sure.




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Old 09-09-2016, 13:16   #22
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Re: Moody 54

Quote:
Originally Posted by brookiesailor View Post
Wow, you go to dinner and you get all this! Thanks! That is the boat we hope to look at. It is interesting that you say that the shallow drought will diminish its value as it is one of the higher priced Moody's in the area for that year. Will take that into consideration.

In truth I expect that boats of this age and a little newer are going up for sale because the people know the systems need to be replaced and they have gotten their enjoyment out of the boat and don't want to sink any more money into it. Most likely it would be a rare find to have a boat in our price range with updated electronics and new sails... And actually I haven't seen many outside our price range in this age group either. The sad thing about electronics is like computers they are almost obsolete as soon as you install them....

Going into this with our eyes wide open is the idea. So thank you for your suggestions of things to look at for sure.

Yes -- expect to spend some money on a boat this age.

But that's ok -- the replacement cost of a boat like that is about 1.2 to 1.5 million euros, so if you can do it for 600k you're doing great.

I would expect to spend something like:

20k electronics, renew/overhaul pilot, etc.
15k standing rigging and renewal of deck gear
10k replace all through hulls, hoses, small repairs, etc.
40k - 50k sails


Don't buy the first boat you see.

The pound has lost quite a bit of its value and boats in the UK are suddenly a better bargain than they were. There's a 2011 Discovery 55 for sale for about $900k. You might like that better.

You should look at Oysters, Discoveries, and Contests, besides the Moody 54.
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Old 09-09-2016, 13:48   #23
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Re: Moody 54

For example, this:

2003 Discovery 55 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

The Discovery is an interesting boat with some advantages over the Moody -- three watertight compartments, for example, and a better engine room.
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Old 09-09-2016, 14:40   #24
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Re: Moody 54

I looked at these and also the 48. Both built at the end of the true Moodys by Halmatic. The build quality is superb, way out and beyond the earlier Moodys.

The 48 in my opinion for long distance live aboard is too small if you want all the toys. The 54 is perfect. There werent any good ones around when I was looking so we bought an IP485 - which is a little smaller but perfect for 2.

All are big boats and are as fine as nothing major going wrong. Inevitably a stuck main for example is a major issue in any wind or sea state. Sails of this size are heavy and powerful. All the time everything is working and even when it is not but it isnt a major component 2 is just fine.

Probably it will be pretty well used and replacement parts to bring it back to top order will be costly so do make sure you budget accordingly. For example has the rig been replaced? If not thats around £10K. What about the sails. I have no idea about the tanks on these as didnt get that far but if there is any risk any might need replacing usually on a yacht of this size it will be an epic.

Good luck.
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Old 10-09-2016, 02:50   #25
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Re: Moody 54

I looked at the discovery and an oyster out of Bermuda and sent both ads off to hubby to consider. Obviously we don't jump into anything as we have looked at dozens of boats over the years. It is funny that our rolls are reversed in the buying process. Hubby is looking at how pretty the bedroom is and I am asking about engine access, engine hours, bilge pumps, electronics etc. meanwhile they are trying to show me how shiny the stove is. Not to say that hubby is uneducated by any means. He is a marine engineer and holds a mates license and has done a lot of sailing, just not in a long time. He does just fine out on the water.

I liked the fact that the discovery had the raised saloon. I am short and usually only see blue sky out the windows. Which doesn't really bother me. As was brought up earlier I wonder about world wide service on all but the oyster as there seems to have been much more of them built. Discovery being such a boutique builder I would think would have good customer service.

What is service like through moody on the boats built before the sale. Are they helpful with finding things far and wide? Or do they just service the boats sold after 2004?

How big an anchor should I get? Hehehe



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Old 10-09-2016, 03:14   #26
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Re: Moody 54

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
Yes -- expect to spend some money on a boat this age.

But that's ok -- the replacement cost of a boat like that is about 1.2 to 1.5 million euros, so if you can do it for 600k you're doing great.

I would expect to spend something like:

20k electronics, renew/overhaul pilot, etc.
15k standing rigging and renewal of deck gear
10k replace all through hulls, hoses, small repairs, etc.
40k - 50k sails


Don't buy the first boat you see.

The pound has lost quite a bit of its value and boats in the UK are suddenly a better bargain than they were. There's a 2011 Discovery 55 for sale for about $900k. You might like that better.

You should look at Oysters, Discoveries, and Contests, besides the Moody 54.
40k-50k for sails is ridiculous. I replaced ours with triradial cut DYS sailcloth with sailcoat for under $18k total cost for all three sails by one of the best UK sail lofts. Our friends on an identical boat did the same this year. Actually, we replaced the mainsail and have made plans for the jibs to be replaced.

Electronics: Why spend (waste) 20k on electronics when an ipad air will do the same job for under $500?
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Old 10-09-2016, 03:32   #27
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Re: Moody 54

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
40k-50k for sails is ridiculous. I replaced ours with triradial cut DYS sailcloth with sailcoat for under $18k total cost for all three sails by one of the best UK sail lofts. Our friends on an identical boat did the same this year. Actually, we replaced the mainsail and have made plans for the jibs to be replaced.

Electronics: Why spend (waste) 20k on electronics when an ipad air will do the same job for under $500?
Of course all this can be done for much less.

But I have to say -- the money I spent on sails -- which amounted to more than the price of my first house (ouch) -- was the best money I ever spent on a boat. It's a question of priorities; I really like to sail.
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Old 10-09-2016, 03:45   #28
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Re: Moody 54

Quote:
Originally Posted by brookiesailor View Post
I looked at the discovery and an oyster out of Bermuda and sent both ads off to hubby to consider. Obviously we don't jump into anything as we have looked at dozens of boats over the years. It is funny that our rolls are reversed in the buying process. Hubby is looking at how pretty the bedroom is and I am asking about engine access, engine hours, bilge pumps, electronics etc. meanwhile they are trying to show me how shiny the stove is. Not to say that hubby is uneducated by any means. He is a marine engineer and holds a mates license and has done a lot of sailing, just not in a long time. He does just fine out on the water.

I liked the fact that the discovery had the raised saloon. I am short and usually only see blue sky out the windows. Which doesn't really bother me. As was brought up earlier I wonder about world wide service on all but the oyster as there seems to have been much more of them built. Discovery being such a boutique builder I would think would have good customer service.

What is service like through moody on the boats built before the sale. Are they helpful with finding things far and wide? Or do they just service the boats sold after 2004?

How big an anchor should I get? Hehehe



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Moody went out of business in the late 2000's, so no service from them! At the time, Moody was the oldest yacht building company in the world.

If you expect support from the builder, then Oyster's is second to none. They maintain a completely file on every individual boat and will help you with any possible aspect of service or repair, ship parts to you, etc., etc.

Discovery also very good.

All these boats use the same components, so support from the maker is not really all that important for most people. The rig and all deck gear is Selden and Lewmar, the pumps are all Jabsco, Johnson and Whale, the autopilot is Hypro, the electrical gear is all Victron, etc. etc. But if you do feel you need this, then Oyster is your boat.


Concerning salon layout --

Discovery doesn't have a salon as such, and that's the one thing I don't like about them. The settees and table are on a kind of dais, the nav table is on its own platform, and there's no proper floor area. There is a good view from all of these individual places, but they are not connected to each other, and you will have big problems if you need to carry something in or out of the boat and set it down somewhere. The raised nav table is innovative and great -- you can see over the bow while seated at the nav table, so you can keep a watch from there. Great! But the rest of it is carp in my opinion. YMMV.

Oyster has the best salon layout of all these boats -- higher but with a common floor. I really love this -- it's an important feature.

Moody has a lower doghouse -- so less windage and looks sleeker, but you can't see over the foredeck from the salon so not nearly the light and views of the Oyster.

On the other hand, the Moody has quite a bit of open floor area in the salon, and the boat was delivered with two matching director's chairs. You have to stow them underway, but in port or at anchor, this means that you can sit in real furniture which you can move around and arrange in different ways, so for example you can show a movie to the whole crew sitting comfortably. I like this very much compared to all the furniture being built-in and fixed in place.


Both Moody and Oyster nav tables are sunken on the lower level, and after living with that for 7 years, I don't like it. My next boat will have a pilothouse and will have a full indoor watchstanding/nav station, which is what you really need for this latitude.


Engine rooms:

Oyster smallest, Moody medium, Discovery largest. The Discovery engine room is really good; Oyster and Moody less so. The Moody engine room is too big to reach everything from outside it, but too small to walk into to it, so it is effectively "crawl-in" -- one of the weaknesses of the design. At least it's big enough to fit all the gear you might want to put into it, and there is full access from two sides, but crawling into it and lying on top of the engine is a -- not great fun experience.

Moody, alone among these boats, has a dedicated watermaker room/space, with even space in it for a day tank. That's cool!


Heads:

Oyster fairly ordinary for a boat this size.

Discovery heads quite good and elegantly finished, but engine room access is through one wall of the aft heads.

Moody has the largest and most comfortable heads compartments of all these boats, with showers almost like in a land home. When I was buying my boat, I thought it was a waste of space and didn't like it. Now I realize it's very clever and good. You can store things temporarily there, hang wet clothes (although there is a separate wet locker with drain and heat outlet inside), use the after heads as a temporary workshop (one wall opens up to the engine room), even store things temporarily -- it's actually very good and useful space, and very comfortable for its main function also.

Washer/dryer:

Oyster put them in different places; the boats I looked at had them built into the after heads shower behind a plexiglass door.

Discovery also in the after heads.

Moody in the passage cabin in its own cabinet, and that's pretty good.

The Moody passage cabin has a berth with a trotter box suitable for a child. You get to the aft cabin through this. I prefer the Oyster arrangement where you have a real Pullman cabin (often converted to a workshop) and access to the aft cabin is through the galley.

The Moody passage cabin is a useful multifunction space, though. I keep tools and parts in the cabinets there; the main access to the engine room is through the inboard wall of this cabin. The mattress comes off the bunk and you have a decent workbench, or space to store lots of things under way. Rarely does anyone sleep there, so the mattress is always in the way somewhere. Maybe I need to throw it away.
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Old 10-09-2016, 12:34   #29
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Re: Moody 54

While we're talking Moody, here is a thought... been for sale for quite some time. Had a "pending sale" on her a while ago.

GL with your search

1986 Moody 58 Custom Sloop Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com
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Old 11-09-2016, 03:20   #30
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Re: Moody 54

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleuthera 2014 View Post
While we're talking Moody, here is a thought... been for sale for quite some time. Had a "pending sale" on her a while ago.

GL with your search

1986 Moody 58 Custom Sloop Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com
Lovely boat. Sometimes an older and inexpensive boat like this can make sense -- if you add up the cost of a good refit and the total is not more than it will be worth afterwards. It might not be more expensive to refit that, compared to refitting an early 2000's in typical condition.

Also worth considering is just buying new. I would never buy a car new, but boats have different dynamics of price depreciation vs amortization of the systems. I have come around to thinking that it's actually worthwhile to buy new.
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