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Old 14-09-2009, 13:08   #1
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Monohull and Fiber Rigging

I need to start a different thread as I am in the process of answering a number of questions concerning rigging a monohull with Dynex Dux. I do not want to hijack the other thread, it is located here:

Poll: Turnbuckles


Quote:
Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
I don't buy it:

- how has chafe from other elements of rigging been addressed?
- how has UV damage issues been addressed?
- why should I use a wire twice the dia of the 1x19?
- are the terminal eyes designed to be tensioned with turnbuckles ...
- what is the price difference (I mean - inclusive of relevant depreciation).
(...)

Maybe next year.

b.
OK one line at a time:

I don't buy it:

I understand..... you do not have to "buy it". We are all allowed to do whatever we like with our boats, that is a big part of the fun. Believe me I have plenty of folks on the side lines waiting to see it fail. It is understandable if someone is claiming the performance of exotics for the price of Stainless wire, that a guy can do himself. This is not something that happens in yachting.

- how has chafe from other elements of rigging been addressed?

the base material is SK-75. It is made into butchers gloves. It is extremely (I do not say this lightly) resistant to chafe. Hard to cut with a good knife. In real world use in the Bearing Sea on large offshore trawlers. We get 3 times the life from SK-75 than we do wire ropes.

- how has UV damage issues been addressed?

Studies are all documented. Lloyd's of London rates Dynex Dux "Best" among the synthetic ropes. John at Colligomarine.com is conducting tests by taking a rope each year that has been exposed to 350 days of intense Mexico sun. The first years break test showed 20% reduction in ultimate strength. Year number two is coming up for the next test. A study conducted on Dux at the University of Auckland on UV say there is not as big of a change after the first year. There is a degradation of the outer coat, and the inside of the rope is not as effected. Time will tell. I have running backstay’s that are 3 years old and I do not see any visible change in the rope. Same color and slick properties. I have had rope two years old that I have re-spliced and could see no difference. So far the word is "at least 5 years" but we need to have it out there for that long to find out.

- why should I use a wire twice the dia of the 1x19?

You would not do this. I replaced all my 7/32"'s and 1/4" wires with 7mm Dynex Dux. The wire brand new is 8,000 lbs breaking strength. The Rope at the same size is 15,500 lbs. breaking strength.

- are the terminal eyes designed to be tensioned with turnbuckles ...

Yes you can have it either way. The same fitting for top and bottom of the shroud. Turnbuckle or deadeye. See photo below.....ah I do not have a shot. There is one one here on the cover page it looks like Home

- what is the price difference (I mean - inclusive of relevant depreciation).

with in 10% of new wire.
Quote:
Originally Posted by barnakiel
Wire is dead, except for a traditionally designed GRP monohull ....

;-)

b.


I have no intention of hijacking this thread. I will just give some facts.

A Westsail 32 was just fully outfitted, even the bowsprit and boomkin. (it will be at the Annapolis boat show) All Dynex Dux and Colligo fittings by Brian Duff.
Rigging

A 56' Schooner in Chesapeake save 600 lbs. from his rig using dynex dux. Brion Duff rigger.
A 33' Ranger was done entirely in Dux using turnbuckles. By traditionalist Brion Toss (who was rigging another big wooden mono this weekend with Dux) The Ranger owner is thrilled.
A new race/cruise boat done in Argentinian in Dux, another on the way.
A 1936 wooden sloop done entirely in Dux. The boat owner is a rigger. He reports taking up one turn on his top turnbuckles in one year. His story is here.
http://www.strongrope.com/news.htm

These are all facts. I listened to a presentation by Brion Toss this weekend in Port Townsend Wood Boat show. He said, when discussing rigging (and boats) You are all entitled to your own opinion, but you are not entitled to your own facts.

Photo of Brion Toss looking through a new Colligo eye.....

Brion Toss Yacht Riggers, Sailboat RiggingHome

Spliced to Dynex Dux...a whole new way of looking at it. It is going on a 48' wooden Mono "Island Girl" bound for the pacific in just a few days
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Old 14-09-2009, 15:24   #2
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Jmolan,

Thanks for that interesting piece.
I am sure the first riggers who replaced dead-eyes and tarred lanyards with bottle screws and thimbles were viewed with a skeptical eye.
Impressive stuff
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Old 14-09-2009, 15:33   #3
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Good reading

Blue Stocking.....careful it will change your life....

This is one of the best pieces I ever read on the mind game of new rigging. It is By Brion Toss a well known and respected rigger. All the better it written 5 years ago!

Brion Toss Yacht Riggers Fairleads Newsletter
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Old 14-09-2009, 21:08   #4
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Very interesting. It seem that it would be easier to repair / jury rigging. But stonger? haw can this be if you can cut it with a good knife, can't do that with wire.
If Brian Toss likes it, I will definitely check it out when OG needs new rigging.
Thanks for this post jmolan,
Erika
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Old 14-09-2009, 21:14   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ocean Girl View Post
Very interesting. It seem that it would be easier to repair / jury rigging. But stonger? haw can this be if you can cut it with a good knife, can't do that with wire.
If Brian Toss likes it, I will definitely check it out when OG needs new rigging.
Thanks for this post jmolan,
Erika
Stronger as in "when trying to hold something up" or when you attach both ends and try to pull it apart....

I guess if the knife parameter would work, then even a Brahma Bull would not be as strong as an oyster. You can cut the Bull with a knife....
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Old 14-09-2009, 21:33   #6
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tutorial needed
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jmolan
I prefer no turnbuckles.......no worries! Back to the future. Wire is dead...:-)

How do you adjust such a rig while underway?
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Bash,

it is the same routine as with turnbuckles. I take up on the slack side by hand without tools. It is an 8 strand roving so there is a lot of purchase, and the line is very slick. Tack the boat and adjust the slack side again.
If I have to do a headstay or backstay I usually take the tail up with a halyard. It really get's the tension on fast when you use a halyard winch...

The is a good tutorial here:

http://www.colligomarine.com/docs/mi...ie_ver_1_1.pdf
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Old 14-09-2009, 22:00   #7
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he he, I get your point. I was thinking about the stress of a collision, a wire stay might come through better, but the repair would be tougher.
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Old 14-09-2009, 22:02   #8
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Jmolan,

I think you are absolutely right. When the time comes for replacing our rigging I will go this way if at all possible. Our capshrouds and lowers were 1/2" 1x19 but we replaced this with Dyform 12mm 4 years ago. The capshrouds are pre-tensioned to 20% of breaking strength on aft-swept spreaders; we have no back stays. Is there a Dynex Dux replacement for that? The rest is 10mm, 8mm and some 7mm.

About the tensioning: After using a halyard + winch, the Dynex should be pinched on the lower end to prevent it from slipping back while tying the knot. There's a special version vice-grip for that!

cheers,
Nick.
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Old 14-09-2009, 22:57   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ocean Girl View Post
he he, I get your point. I was thinking about the stress of a collision, a wire stay might come through better, but the repair would be tougher.

Hey we may have to do that study some day. The "crash test" I would be of the opinion that the rope would flex many times better with out deforming.

Quick story: Fishing in Alaska. Our entire boat (125' Bearing Sea Trawler) is rigged with Dynex Dux in all the places we used to use wire rope. Everywhere now. We started to crack winch drums when we switched to Dynex Dux. We were initially worried Dux would break, or chafe, or stretch....but, where wire would crush and give in the way of stretch in shock loading, the Dux just hung in there, to the point of cracking the drum on the winch. This stuff is amazingly tough.
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Old 14-09-2009, 23:24   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
Jmolan,

I think you are absolutely right. When the time comes for replacing our rigging I will go this way if at all possible. Our capshrouds and lowers were 1/2" 1x19 but we replaced this with Dyform 12mm 4 years ago. The capshrouds are pre-tensioned to 20% of breaking strength on aft-swept spreaders; we have no back stays. Is there a Dynex Dux replacement for that? The rest is 10mm, 8mm and some 7mm.

About the tensioning: After using a halyard + winch, the Dynex should be pinched on the lower end to prevent it from slipping back while tying the knot. There's a special version vice-grip for that!

cheers,
Nick.
The way to spec. the rope you would use is to calculate your standing tension, or constant tension. If you keep that below 20% of the breaking strength or 15% is even better. You will have no creep problems at all. The cool thing is size for size, Dynex Dux is so strong (up to twice as strong in the smaller sizes) stronger then the best (best being new) Dyform. The chart is below.

You tensioned your capshrouds 20% of 12mm Dyform. At 31,746 lbs. breaking strength that comes to 6,349 lbs.

http://www.hampidjan.is/media/pdf/00...taflaagu02.pdf

13 mm Dynex Dux (do not have 12mm) has a breaking strength of 24.5 tons (49,000 lbs)
20% comes to 9,800 lbs. And the lower 15% comes to 7,350 lbs.

You can pretension the 13 mm Dux the same as your dyform.

12 mm Dyform weighs 54.2 lbs per 100 ft.
13 mm Dynex Dux weighs 11.2 Kg per 100 meters (25 lb. per 328 ft.) or 7.6 lbs. per 100 ft. ( better check my math)

Good chart of rigging tension and comparisons with wire and rod at:

Dynex Dux | Colligo Synthetic Systems | Colligo Marine

Funny you should mention a vice grip for tensioning. You are a very smart man..... I use a real small one....see below
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Old 15-09-2009, 04:56   #11
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I've been watching it but don't think it is there yet, UV seems to be the downfall. I do see it as a possible option for repairs at sea if you sail with rod since it cannot be easily coiled.
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Old 15-09-2009, 10:25   #12
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Quote:
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I've been watching it but don't think it is there yet, UV seems to be the downfall. I do see it as a possible option for repairs at sea if you sail with rod since it cannot be easily coiled.

For the UV concerned folks, it also now is covered with a tightly woven cover. This is the stuff that is going on Nigel Calders boat in Sweden soon. He will use both covered and uncovered as his boat is a test bed for all sorts of new systems.

Malö Yachts

And there is a big steel boat heading to Antarctica with 13mm very soon.....
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Old 15-09-2009, 15:10   #13
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Our rod is 20 years old and is still fine. All rigging was removed and inspected by a major spar maker and came back with a clean bill of health. I was expecting a minimum of reheading or possibly replacement but everything checked out. The boat has tens of thoushands of miles with trips to the West Coast, Caribbean, Europe, and the Great Lakes.

Hope the Dux works out but.....time will tell.

- how has UV damage issues been addressed?

So far the word is "at least 5 years" but we need to have it out there for that long to find out.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jmolan View Post
For the UV concerned folks, it also now is covered with a tightly woven cover. This is the stuff that is going on Nigel Calders boat in Sweden soon. He will use both covered and uncovered as his boat is a test bed for all sorts of new systems.

Malö Yachts

And there is a big steel boat heading to Antarctica with 13mm very soon.....
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Old 15-09-2009, 15:49   #14
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That is a good report.....very cool, sounds like you are getting your moneys worth, and you have got a clean bill of health.....hopefully I am around in 20 years to have something to report....sorry if I did not mention the covered stuff originally......
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Old 15-09-2009, 16:16   #15
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The UV damage is something I can live with. I have runners from that Samson Amsteel blue for four years now and I don't believe the degradation continues further into the core. Even the outside is still smooth like new, but bleached.

The problems I have with it are creep, working load and the missing data on shockloading. The problem with creep is that my capshrouds would grow more than 3 inches a year and I would need to tune monthly. Working load is only 20% of breaking load and above that 20% all bets on stretch and creep are off. I will already have 15% pre-tension! And the missing performance data of shockloading will prevent me from buying it. But, I don't need it yet as everything was replaced only 4 years ago. So I can wait and see how it works out with Dynex Dux and may be something else comes around.

ciao!
Nick.
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