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Old 22-07-2013, 18:04   #76
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Re: Modern production cruisers at sea

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
What would you perceive as " stats". That would affect its ability and how would you compare them with what " normal " range and on what experience or authority.

Dave
Look at the ballast/disp ratio. (29%) It's pretty bad. You may actually want to read the book on Seaworthiness that you claim to own. Plus the boat has very little wetted surface. But if he sails it in the local bay or lake it will be fine.
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Old 22-07-2013, 18:06   #77
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Re: Modern production cruisers at sea

When I crossed the Pacific I noticed that the further I got from the mainland continents the less of the modern designed boats I saw at island anchorages. They were still there but in much smaller numbers that what I saw of them in mainland marinas. The majority of the boats that were doing a Pacific crossing were purposely designed cruising boats, mostly hybrids with lenticular shaped hulls but with shorter keels. e.g. Island Packets etc. Most of these people seam to find a design that they like and then get somebody to build it for them to the standard and layout that they require.
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Old 22-07-2013, 18:11   #78
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Look at the ballast/disp ratio. (29%) It's pretty bad. You may actually want to read the book on Seaworthiness that you claim to own. Plus the boat has very little wetted surface. But if he sails it in the local bay or lake it will be fine.
Why do you say 29% is bad , ( and low wetted surface is BAD !!) I have seaworthiness I have read it cover to cover several times. I've read Elements of yacht design etc, Marchal is getting very dated.

I mean this is a RCD Category A boat , its meets certain standards for scantlings , etc.

Dave
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Old 22-07-2013, 18:13   #79
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When I crossed the Pacific I noticed that the further I got from the mainland continents the less of the modern designed boats I saw at island anchorages. They were still there but in much smaller numbers that what I saw of them in mainland marinas. The majority of the boats that were doing a Pacific crossing were purposely designed cruising boats, mostly hybrids with lenticular shaped hulls but with shorter keels. e.g. Island Packets etc. Most of these people seam to find a design that they like and then get somebody to build it for them to the standard and layout that they require.
I see hundreds of boats crossing the Atlantic , most are modern production boats , many continue on , so what. Northern European coastal cruising is harder then either on boats ! ( just consider the equivalent latitude in the US!)

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Old 22-07-2013, 18:22   #80
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I refuse to go to sea on anything that does not have at least 3 masts, square sails, and room in the hold for livestock, casks of rum, and barrels of hard tack!

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Old 22-07-2013, 18:24   #81
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I refuse to go to sea on anything that does not have at least 3 masts, square sails, and room in the hold for livestock, casks of rum, and barrels of hard tack!

You left out the scurvy dogs !

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Old 22-07-2013, 18:25   #82
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Re: Modern production cruisers at sea

Go Piglet.
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Old 22-07-2013, 18:28   #83
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Re: Modern production cruisers at sea

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Look at the ballast/disp ratio. (29%) It's pretty bad. You may actually want to read the book on Seaworthiness that you claim to own.
I'm amazed that an 80s couch can still sail.

Dosn't matter how many old books one reads, the info is still dated.
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Old 22-07-2013, 18:32   #84
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Re: Modern production cruisers at sea

You've done it now Don.
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Old 22-07-2013, 18:35   #85
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Re: Modern production cruisers at sea

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If you were to ask me about "how a Beneteau sails" the first day I took her offshore, you would have gotton the worst feedback avalable..
Then I learned how to sail her..
And with many years of experance, I had to learn all over again... I found that she hates dead down wind sailing, and if forced into a following sea with a kite up, you'll feel like your standing on banana peals riding a scateboard..
But, on the other hand, a few degrees off the wind, and sailing the face of the swells, she comes alive and shows her true throbread breeding.
My point is,
All boats dont sail the same, and more times than not, each boat will have a sweet spot, where within that spot, she sails comfortable, at a fair speed..
Odd thing, I dont ever remember seeing an owners manual on a sailboat to show this, and I dont believe any production boat, or any boat for that mater has ever been built where the designers sat around figuring out how to make the boat sail crappy.
I'm a firm believer in the fact that if you boast about how crappy a boat sails, you dont know how to sail that boat............
You make a point as far as it goes, however your post infers there are no "crappy" sailing boats, and that, as we all know, is... well...crap.
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Old 22-07-2013, 18:37   #86
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Re: Modern production cruisers at sea

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I refuse to go to sea on anything that does not have at least 3 masts, square sails, and room in the hold for livestock, casks of rum, and barrels of hard tack!

Now you're talking, sign me up. But when it's time to careen her, you have to call someone else.
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Old 22-07-2013, 18:41   #87
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I refuse to go to sea on anything that does not have at least 3 masts, square sails, and room in the hold for livestock, casks of rum, and barrels of hard tack!

OK. I lied. I don't own a boat. I charter....mostly "bendy's", Catalina's, and Hunters. I get pretty pissed if the blender on the boat is small. Making numerous batches of perfect margaritas is taxing mentally and physically. Don't even get me started if the sound system doesn't have a input for my iPod.

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Old 22-07-2013, 18:44   #88
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http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/sta...o-20939-2.html


Interesting ratios for some small HRs versus Beneteau DuFour etc. looking at it Id buy a contest yacht.

Dave
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Old 22-07-2013, 18:49   #89
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No only Americans , a tiny percentage of the sailing community. The rest of the world has moved on You'll see BMWs in Boston , you'll not see Pontiac's in Paris , ask yourself why , I'm not taking a pot shot ,

This discussion in France would be laughed at.

Dave
Okay I call bullish-t!!!!

While I am neither a Parisian nor French, I have been to Paris enough to know the reason why you will not see Pontiacs in Paris is 1- they don't make Pontiacs any more... 2-the French are utilitarian. They would never buy something that big. That Smart Car was built by Renault and Mercedes to meet a need. A small and highly fuel efficient vehicle... 3-any one whom has driven or even walk the streets of Paris would know that many Pontiacs that were built were bigger than most French trucks used in the downtown area.

Sorry- elitist posts like this really have no place in a reasonably focused conversation.
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Old 22-07-2013, 19:05   #90
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Okay I call bullish-t!!!!

While I am neither a Parisian nor French, I have been to Paris enough to know the reason why you will not see Pontiacs in Paris is 1- they don't make Pontiacs any more... 2-the French are utilitarian. They would never buy something that big. That Smart Car was built by Renault and Mercedes to meet a need. A small and highly fuel efficient vehicle... 3-any one whom has driven or even walk the streets of Paris would know that many Pontiacs that were built were bigger than most French trucks used in the downtown area.

Sorry- elitist posts like this really have no place in a reasonably focused conversation.
I wasnt making an elitist post , I was trying to point out that this fin versus long keel ( to generalise the issue ) is as much about national proclivities as it is about what is really suitable. The US sailing market is proportionally small ( its a huge power market) , its predominantly ageing and hence conservative. One only has to look at , albeit now mostly out of production , US designs.

In Europe and NZ , which has a predominantly greater sailing populations , the trend is more modern faster boats with low wetted area , modern appendages, etc. very few US traditional sailing designs found any market in Europe, yet US Mobos enjoy healthy market shares. This suggests that the argument that heavy large wetted area boats did not find favour with the public here.

This is why I argue that many modern ( not all) production cruisers are built to serve a demanding market. And many will quite happily carry you around the world. To advance an argument that nothing built after 1980 or costing under 750K can't bring you around the world is simply nonsense . Its also disproved by looking out the window.

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