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Old 26-07-2013, 09:38   #331
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Re: Modern Production Cruisers at Sea

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Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
Donny,

I promised you I'd never bring up the "issue" again... And I've stuck to it. I'm over it. 'Had lot's of fun on our Hunter... 'love your Hunter... it's an awesome boat.

Now be nice. I'll write up a thread at some point about the thin walled bronze couplings used on most boats causing shitter problems.

Back to the topic: I've also been on a comparable sized Hanse 54 recently anchored near our Oyster.... they are not the same. Everything on the Hanse is sized for coastal cruising and dockside entertainment with a displacement 12,000 pounds lighter than the Oyster and with very high freeboard. Everything on the Oyster and other makes such as Najad, HR, Tayana, Discovery, Hylas just to name a few is HEAVY DUTY with storage space galore and hand holds built in throughout. The hull design is also quite different with the Oyster having a deep V hull to cut through the waves. None of that is present on the Hanse or the Catalinas I've seen at the boat shows... they are light duty. Nothing wrong with that, it just depends on what your plans are. Pam and I intend to cross oceans and travel around the world over the next 20 years... safely, just the two of us.

This next statement is not directed towards you Don in any way:

I'm surrounded by billionaire's boats here in Mallorca, so I don't need an education from some computer armchair expert smartass on a 30 foot 30 year old boat, living in his mommy's basement about an Oyster not being the top of the heap... but it's the best boat I could afford at this stage of our lives. Of course there's better boats... but I'm not a billionaire!
Great, more personal insults instead of factual discussion. Hope things work out with your pooper and sorry you're not a billionaire. It must suck to just be a millionaire.
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Old 26-07-2013, 09:58   #332
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Re: Modern Production Cruisers at Sea

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Windows and portholes glued to the sides are glued in some cases with Sika, and the proper primers,,, and i redone a bunch of this windows, funny is the builder dont use any kind of mechanical atachment , no screws , relying only in the glue, included Catana in the list, in the north climates are holding fine, here in the tropics Lexan spand and contract making the glue work hard, and eventually fail, one solution we found is to tape or paint the side corners of this windows to let the sun dont heat to much the borders and use the best glue avalaible, even one customer want the dam windows screwed because dont believe in the glue alone, Science?
Yikes, neilpride, that was a loooooong sentence. It seems to have overtaxed your spell checker.

Regarding the "no screws" comment, you may be missing something. I've recently re-bedded a window on my boat, and there were four holes. The way Hunter installs the windows is to put in screws while the bedding compound is curing in order to keep the window from moving. After 72 hours you back out the screws and add bedding compound to the screw holes. In other words, there's more fit and finish work involved in not having the screws than having them, the advantage being you won't get leaking via the screws a decade after they're no longer needed.
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Old 26-07-2013, 10:02   #333
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Re: Modern Production Cruisers at Sea

The Hanse brand is a good illustration of this issue. I say Hanse does things on the cheap - YVMV.

A few weeks ago I spotted a brand new Hanse 49. Two things stood out

1. The teak deck while looking very cute was only 3/16" thick, so how long will that last ?
2. The anchor fitting was one of those bolt on/off thingies that racers use. That would be OK for the once a year family cruise but as a full time fitting I reckon it isn't strong enough.

There was probably more in the way of shortcuts but the rig was not in and the boat was locked up. Here's a pic of the anchor roller.


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Old 26-07-2013, 10:17   #334
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Re: Modern Production Cruisers at Sea

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Originally Posted by savoir View Post
2. The anchor fitting was one of those bolt on/off thingies that racers use. That would be OK for the once a year family cruise but as a full time fitting I reckon it isn't strong enough.

There was probably more in the way of shortcuts but the rig was not in and the boat was locked up. Here's a pic of the anchor roller.
Looks OK to me. We have been cruising 5 years with a common bolt on thingy with no problems, and know many, many others with the same experience.

The roller only holds the anchor in storage and allows easier retrieval - it is not meant to take the full force of the the anchoring gear in use. A snubber is used for that, and it should not be led through the roller. Most of the damages to rollers I have seen have been due to improper use rather than cheap design.

I have seen cheap designs, but they are another issue.

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Old 26-07-2013, 10:18   #335
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Re: Modern Production Cruisers at Sea

"one of those bolt on/off thingies ..." How else are those "anchor thingies" to be attached?
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Old 26-07-2013, 10:18   #336
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Re: Modern Production Cruisers at Sea

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Originally Posted by Bash View Post
Yikes, neilpride, that was a loooooong sentence. It seems to have overtaxed your spell checker.

Regarding the "no screws" comment, you may be missing something. I've recently re-bedded a window on my boat, and there were four holes. The way Hunter installs the windows is to put in screws while the bedding compound is curing in order to keep the window from moving. After 72 hours you back out the screws and add bedding compound to the screw holes. In other words, there's more fit and finish work involved in not having the screws than having them, the advantage being you won't get leaking via the screws a decade after they're no longer needed.

I understand your point, regarding the windows in the topsides sides, i can say 100% sure by experience that in few brands the glue fail in few years in the tropics, even there is a beneteau here in the boatyard without uv tape shield in the windows , is a fact ... im not blaming other designs or brands because i dont know how this windows are fited, i suspect are glued in the same fashion, there is few owners sites like Hanse where a couple of customers experience windows problems after few years, now come on and tell me that modern glues are used in space shutles and cars, come on, i know that, but this modern technology is not used yet in boats, comparing a car window with a plexi boat window? car windows is glass , is not in a marine enviroment, the procedure to fix this windows by hanse or beneteau is to use Sika with the apropiate primer and uv tape shield, thats it.

Now imagine your boat with a window close to fail being thrown on its beam end by a rogue sea in the midle of a gale..
Make sense to check the integrity of this side windows before a disaster happen no??
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Old 26-07-2013, 10:40   #337
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Re: Modern Production Cruisers at Sea

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... but it's the best boat I could afford at this stage of our lives. Of course there's better boats... but I'm not a billionaire!

In the end isn't this all it comes down to? We buy the boat we can afford and considering our intended use. My intended use is the same as yours, but I was only willing to spend 25% for the cost of my boat as you in order to be able to leave sooner.

I have read these threads for years and believe that other than supplying material for the "experts" most others are really responding to justify their choice because they couldn't afford something else. Doesn't really mean there is anything wrong with their choice, for them.
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Old 26-07-2013, 10:45   #338
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Re: Modern Production Cruisers at Sea

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Make sense to check the integrity of this side windows before a disaster happen no??

Yes, but what difference does it make whether it is glued or screwed? Other than if it is screwed you probably need to pull it to check whether the screws are leaking and rotting the cabin's core.

But then again this is just mainly living in fear of the 0.01% "whatever" and you can apply it to something an any boat.
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Old 26-07-2013, 10:48   #339
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Re: Modern Production Cruisers at Sea

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"one of those bolt on/off thingies ..." How else are those "anchor thingies" to be attached?
That is the type of fitting that you will see on a racer such as a Beneteau 47.7. It is designed to unbolt easily because you generally cannot race with an anchor on the bow.

If it is permanently mounted and regularly used it will bend over time. You guys want an example of cheap gear on a production boat and I have given you two.
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Old 26-07-2013, 10:52   #340
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Re: Modern Production Cruisers at Sea

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Originally Posted by neilpride View Post
Now imagine your boat with a window close to fail being thrown on its beam end by a rogue sea in the midle of a gale..
Make sense to check the integrity of this side windows before a disaster happen no??
Just this morning I was reading Steinbeck, who wrote in The Log from the Sea of Cortez, "There is some quality in man which makes him people the ocean with monsters and one wonders whether they are there or not."

When I get thrown on my beam end by a rogue sea in the middle of a gale, will there be monsters there?

Yikes. The world is too dangerous to let light into a boat? Another great argument for "Lifeboat with a Stick" boat design. Why does it always come down to this?
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Old 26-07-2013, 10:55   #341
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Re: Modern Production Cruisers at Sea

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Originally Posted by Cheechako View Post
"one of those bolt on/off thingies ..." How else are those "anchor thingies" to be attached?
Well, mine is a very heavy duty weldment that is incorporated into the stemhead fitting.

It is strong enough that I have always lead the snubber over it to avoid chafe, despite what Marc says in his post.

And this sort of detail is part of what differentiates between the price point production boats and "higher end" versions (pointed out for those who can't understand that there is a difference). Whether this makes a difference to the individual buyer is a personal thing, and can not be judged by someone else.

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Old 26-07-2013, 10:59   #342
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Re: Modern Production Cruisers at Sea

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The Hanse brand is a good illustration of this issue. I say Hanse does things on the cheap - YVMV.
I will say Hanse made good boats, and the quality is nice, there is a option to get a hull infused with epoxy , and vinilester is widely used by Hanse, the anchor roller thing is something to consider , not hard to fix or redesign...
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Old 26-07-2013, 11:03   #343
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Re: Modern Production Cruisers at Sea

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Just this morning I was reading Steinbeck, who wrote in The Log from the Sea of Cortez, "There is some quality in man which makes him people the ocean with monsters and one wonders whether they are there or not."

When I get thrown on my beam end by a rogue sea in the middle of a gale, will there be monsters there?

Yikes. The world is too dangerous to let light into a boat? Another great argument for "Lifeboat with a Stick" boat design. Why does it always come down to this?
Bash really , you dont make any sense, now say loud and clear that this windows cant fail never ever and there is no chance to have problems with this windows never ever.... are you be in boatyards recently.....
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Old 26-07-2013, 11:09   #344
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Re: Modern Production Cruisers at Sea

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Originally Posted by savoir View Post
That is the type of fitting that you will see on a racer such as a Beneteau 47.7. It is designed to unbolt easily because you generally cannot race with an anchor on the bow.
They won't let you just remove the anchor - you need to remove the anchor roller also? Personally, I have never seen a racing boat remove the roller, but admit that I don't pay that much attention to them.

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Old 26-07-2013, 11:15   #345
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Re: Modern Production Cruisers at Sea

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In the end isn't this all it comes down to? We buy the boat we can afford and considering our intended use....

I have read these threads for years and believe that other than supplying material for the [Lazyboy armchair internet] "experts" most others are really responding to justify their choice because they couldn't afford something else. Doesn't really mean there is anything wrong with their choice, for them.
Agreed... I think that's what I was trying to say. 'Just differently.
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