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Old 25-07-2013, 18:30   #301
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Re: Modern Production Cruisers at Sea

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Originally Posted by neilpride View Post
PS, hull to deck joints with plexus?? come onnnnn!!!!!
I think you just tipped your hand regarding your knowledge and expertise with modern adhesives.

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Old 25-07-2013, 18:43   #302
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Well, that is pretty much my whole point...

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Old 25-07-2013, 19:23   #303
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Re: Modern Production Cruisers at Sea

I skipped from page 7 to page 18.

Wow.........is all I can say.

Better than a mono/cat fight.

I'll try and catch up.
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Old 25-07-2013, 19:32   #304
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Re: Modern Production Cruisers at Sea

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I skipped from page 7 to page 18.

Wow.........is all I can say.

Better than a mono/cat fight.

I'll try and catch up.
I just started on this page. In fact, I don't even know what the original topic is...

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Old 25-07-2013, 19:56   #305
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Re: Modern Production Cruisers at Sea

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I'll raise you...
I've also taken a Hunter37c across the Pond solo...
now that was idiotic and dangerous...
You picked a good one...
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Old 25-07-2013, 19:56   #306
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Re: Modern Production Cruisers at Sea

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Windows and portholes glued to the sides are glued in some cases with Sika, and the proper primers,,, and i redone a bunch of this windows, funny is the builder dont use any kind of mechanical atachment , no screws , relying only in the glue, included Catana in the list, in the north climates are holding fine, here in the tropics Lexan spand and contract making the glue work hard, and eventually fail, one solution we found is to tape or paint the side corners of this windows to let the sun dont heat to much the borders and use the best glue avalaible, even one customer want the dam windows screwed because dont believe in the glue alone, Science?
Mechanical attachments are redundant - period. Auto windshields have been glued in place for decades and they're designed to stop occupants flying through the windshield. Skyscrapers have windows glued in place - I know as I'm an architect.

Glued in windows only fail if the application processes are ignored. You need to apply the primers and ensure the surfaces and environment is per manufacturers instructions. Airplane wings are glued together. They glue the tiles on the space shuttle.


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Glass technology Musoka, ask the Fountaine Pajots owners and their problems with some kind of shity osmotic blisters in new boats
Cheers.
Got an FP - repaired by the manufacturer in 2007 and still looking good. Don't confuse gelcoat blisters with structural failure. Blistering is by and large a cosmetic problem (not that we didn't want it fixed) and the structural laminates were fine. And even with that hassle I don't regret buying my boat.

Welds fail. Rivets fail. Bolts fail. Everything made by man occasionally fails. The only reason things are better designed now than they were 50 years ago is because there have been some spectacular failures and many, many small failures. At the extreme end of it, things have gotten better because people have occasionally been killed by those failures.

PS Hat-tip to ColemJ who pointed all this stuff out a few pages previously.
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Old 25-07-2013, 20:11   #307
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Re: Modern Production Cruisers at Sea

This thread is a "one-stop shop" for my new ignore list I've just discovered.

Just kidding.

When will the parents be home?

Please buy more Beneteaus. I imagine they pay taxes in SC and the roads really suck as soon as I cross the state line from NC....

People cross oceans in the damnedest things, I know some Cubans and Haitans that would kill to have a Hunter or Beneteau. I think the OP was maybe not cut out for crossing oceans? It can be tiring and uncomfortable in a 40+ foot boat I hear. Boy did he kick an anthill though, and like EO Wilson, I can't help but watch with fascination

The thrill is gone and I'm off to see if there's anything new in the food related threads. Condiment, rather.
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Old 25-07-2013, 23:29   #308
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Re: Modern Production Cruisers at Sea

I'm a modern boat guy but you can not race the Vic Maui race out of Victoria Canada if your boat has a spade rudder "unless" you carry a spare emergency rudder. There is a very good reason for this and that is the history of rudder failures and rescues for this historic race. I have personal knowledge of rudder failures on friends boats (modern production cruisers) Yachting World out of Britain recently ran an article on a Bavaria 50 with a rudder that was coming apart and had to be repaired enroute. Turned out it was very poorly constructed and when the Bavaria factory was consulted they simply blamed their subcontractor as they said that they actually didn't make the rudder and had no way of knowing how many similar rudders were out there. Personally I feel able to deal with most emergencies at sea but deep down I never want to deal with a rudder failure, I'd rather lose the stick!
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Old 26-07-2013, 00:05   #309
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Re: Modern Production Cruisers at Sea

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Originally Posted by muskoka View Post
They glue the tiles on the space shuttle.
This was perhaps not the best example to use in defense of glue...
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Old 26-07-2013, 00:35   #310
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Re: Modern Production Cruisers at Sea

Some of you have referred to Lisa and Andy Copland cruising around the world in their Benne 38. A couple of things, the Beneteau First Series 38, 40, 42 and 45 have a bit of cult following and they are indeed good boats that sail well and were designed/built for off shore racing. They are built closer to traditional stick built boats and in my mind are not the same as the newer production boats. Keep in mind they were designed and built in the 1980s. I've talked to Andy and he was very happy with the boat. I'm not sure if it was mentioned in his book, but he added a bolt on SS skeg behind the rudder as he felt the boat needed more stability self steering off the wind. He had rudder problems, but as I recall it was due to damage. The benne 42 was always a favorite of mine and I'd take it way before a newer model.
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Old 26-07-2013, 01:37   #311
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Re: Modern Production Cruisers at Sea

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This was perhaps not the best example to use in defense of glue...
At least I didn't mention O-rings as well....

Seriously though, there are over 20,000 tiles on the shuttle and they flew 135 missions. They're doing Mach 25 at re-entry and the tiles are hitting over 1500C. I'd say that's glue with some serious Mojo.

But hey, ya lose one lousy tile and.......
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Old 26-07-2013, 02:01   #312
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Re: Modern Production Cruisers at Sea

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I haven't read every post here so I apologise in advance if I'm out of line. As someone who has launched a new "real bluewater" boat 9 months ago, I have some insight. It is true, I have a very seaworthy and solid design and it sails OK too. However, like every cruiser I know, we watch the weather very closely and we take few chances with it, so we have never sailed in the weather that my boat is supposedly superior in. Like all things there is a trade off and the modern production boats beat me into port in light weather. Most of our time spent cruising has been either at anchor or in a marina and the modern design boats make great dock queens. However, I have found that one thing crucial to our cruising contentment that is rarely mentioned, and that is generous storage capacity built into the design. Our 42' semi custom has a 660 ah house battery system and 320 amp solar I am self sufficient electrically with a simple 12v system. With 1100 litres of water and a built in rainwater catchment system I seldom need to fill tanks with a hose. With a 350 litre holding tank I can stay in an isolated anchorage for a long time before I have to go outside to pump out. With 600 litres of fuel I am not constantly looking to fill up. With all this low down or in the bilge filling them increases the vessels stability. Maybe if a production builder would offer such a boat in the 40 - 45' range they would own the serious cruiser market. Production building means more bang for your buck. Unfortunately it also means that builders will only build what will sell and storage capacities go unnoticed at boat shows. What would I do next time? Save the bucks, buy a production boat and live with the compromises as you have to do, whatever the design.
I read through many pages of posts, and this is the first good observation of what makes a good cruising boat. Not the Catalina vs Oyster numbers comparison nonsense. One guy earlier compared his stability numbers on his Catalina 31 to our Oyster 53 and claimed his boat to be more seaworthy... absolute rubbish. The fellow above has pointed out successfully what makes a good ocean going cruising boat. It's the sum of all the parts... not a few numbers on paper read while kicking back in a comfortable chair at home next to a computer. It's all about actual comfort at sea, and at the rockin 'n rollin anchorage we spend 90% of our time at... not in some easy chair.
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Old 26-07-2013, 04:17   #313
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Re: Modern production cruisers at sea

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A hull of that shape will be very twitchy anywhere from 150 - 180 apparent. Both you and your autopilot will be worn out in any breeze above 15 knots.
Peterson 34:

Thanks for the info. A guy on the SA Site had this to say about the boat:

Likely not -- but I'm a shameless IOR whore. Those boats are like the last redhead in the bar: she'll hurt me, I'm sure to regret this later ... but we're leaving together anyhow. Some hormones will not listen to reason.

You gotta love this analogy. It may apply to lots of sailors and their boat choices. Whatever, I've already met the redhead and she almost did destroy me, but it was a fun time!

Therefore, this boat sounds awesome.
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Old 26-07-2013, 04:21   #314
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This was perhaps not the best example to use in defense of glue...
Why? The most recent shuttle crash had nothing to do with the glue. The actual tile was damaged.
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Old 26-07-2013, 04:27   #315
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I read through many pages of posts, and this is the first good observation of what makes a good cruising boat. Not the Catalina vs Oyster numbers comparison nonsense. One guy earlier compared his stability numbers on his Catalina 31 to our Oyster 53 and claimed his boat to be more seaworthy... absolute rubbish. The fellow above has pointed out successfully what makes a good ocean going cruising boat. It's the sum of all the parts... not a few numbers on paper read while kicking back in a comfortable chair at home next to a computer. It's all about actual comfort at sea, and at the rockin 'n rollin anchorage we spend 90% of our time at... not in some easy chair.
First of all I compared a Catalina 445 to an Oyster.

Second, I didn't say it was more or less seaworthy. I was pointing out that modern oysters are far closer to Catalina's than the traditional long keel designs.

So maybe you should work on your reading comprehension before you say someone's post is absolute rubbish.
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