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Old 25-07-2013, 17:16   #286
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Re: Modern Production Cruisers at Sea

This thread makes me giggle.
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Old 25-07-2013, 17:17   #287
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Re: Modern Production Cruisers at Sea

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
Ogh I've read plenty of dons work. But his stuff on stability is dated inaccurate or mis leading.

Modern yachts have very carefully controlled resin ratios , add exotic materials in places , increasing use of knitted rovings as against CSM , Airex and others closed cell foams. Finite stress analysis allows better understanding of where the stresses actually are. Unnecessary weight is just that

Modern laminated glass is what I meant. Modern windows are such that they are actually stronger then GRP.

Capsize is a dynamic process , AVS etc plays only a part. Form stability allows hulls to be sailed more upright which is more efficient resulting in better speed and more comfort. Simply saying a boat with an AVS of 140 is more seaworthy then one with an AVS of 120 is to mis understand the while stability process. The violence of a capsize had little to do with AVS , or beam , and a lot to do with the roll moment of inertia. ( for example )

Water sloshing around is a function of shallow canoe bodies. It has no effect on seaworthiness or ability to cross oceans. There are trade offs for all advances. In a modern boat there's never a need to have water in the bilges anyway.

Modern laminated whatttt?? Acrilyc poly lexan you mean, no??
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Old 25-07-2013, 17:22   #288
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Re: Modern Production Cruisers at Sea

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All those miles offshore on a stock version without any mods or refabbing? Hell of a boat if so...
Took delivery "new" in England and spent the next 6 years with their 3 young boys --- med--carib--panama-- s. pacific--- aus--- Indonesia--- India--- west coast africa-- the horn--- carib-- florida

They are cruising alaska for a month right now and that is above the 40 line
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Old 25-07-2013, 17:25   #289
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Re: Modern Production Cruisers at Sea

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Originally Posted by Udacha View Post
Took delivery "new" in England and spent the next 6 years with their 3 young boys --- med--carib--panama-- s. pacific--- aus--- Indonesia--- India--- west coast africa-- the horn--- carib-- florida

They are cruising alaska for a month right now and that is above the 40 line
Nice...
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Old 25-07-2013, 17:38   #290
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Windows and portholes glued to the sides are glued in some cases with Sika, and the proper primers,,, and i redone a bunch of this windows, funny is the builder dont use any kind of mechanical atachment , no screws , relying only in the glue, included Catana in the list, in the north climates are holding fine, here in the tropics Lexan spand and contract making the glue work hard, and eventually fail, one solution we found is to tape or paint the side corners of this windows to let the sun dont heat to much the borders and use the best glue avalaible, even one customer want the dam windows screwed because dont believe in the glue alone, Science?

There is a bunch of reports in the net from delivery skipers pointing structural problems in some production boats.

Glass technology Musoka, ask the Fountaine Pajots owners and their problems with some kind of shity osmotic blisters in new boats, or the 2 lagoon owners loosing their bottoms complety in hungry reefs....Internal Grid liners is the only thing keeping this structures together, another blue water feature i guess, in case of hull rupture or collision there is no way to reach nothing....
Cheers.
A beneteaus rotw hit a reef and sank , an Amel rotw hit a reef and sank. Some boats have problems , this is the case with all boats from all periods. There are lemons here and there, so what.

Bonded in windows are more and more commonplace as its a superior method then using mechanical fixtures ( if done right) the fact that some fail does not invalidate the concept. Most do not fail.

Shitty osmotic blisters , see valient

Not saying all production boats are perfect , merely countering the nonsense that you need Don caseys ideas of a 19 th century dog of a thing to sail round the world

Dave
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Old 25-07-2013, 17:42   #291
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This thread makes me giggle.
The OP is somewhere laughing his ass off.
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Old 25-07-2013, 17:47   #292
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pirate Re: Modern Production Cruisers at Sea

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Originally Posted by Don L View Post
Phil you now part of the Idiots and Liars group!

BTW if you are doing the roaring 40s be sure a storm is forecast to be sure to get the full effect of the 1 in 1 million sailor. (for those that believe in such a useless measurement to the real world). (not to you Phil but to the people not worthy of joining the Idiots and Liars group)
I'll raise you...
I've also taken a Hunter37c across the Pond solo...
now that was idiotic and dangerous...
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Old 25-07-2013, 17:53   #293
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Re: Modern Production Cruisers at Sea

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
Not saying all production boats are perfect , merely countering the nonsense that you need Don caseys ideas of a 19 th century dog of a thing to sail round the world
Actually, Don Casey is squarely in the 20th century. The Pardy's on the other hand are 100 years behind him...

Mark
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Old 25-07-2013, 17:54   #294
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Re: Modern Production Cruisers at Sea

Lol! hehe, you mean if that window fail in the dock right? if the joint fail in the worst moment aka in the midle of nowhere with a gale pounding that nice window, any storm shuter fited by this builders ? or back to the ply and nails .. science,,,,
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Old 25-07-2013, 17:55   #295
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Re: Modern Production Cruisers at Sea

It is interesting to see Benes/Jeannes set against Oysters as if they were opposites or something. To me, both makes belong to exactly the same class - modern plastic boats...

There are boats around, and floating, and Category A, of much inferior built/design than that. Equally, Oyster or HR may be the more expensive boats but they are nowhere close to what a high quality modern cruising boat is all about.

I meet at least a couple dozen of delivery crews sailing plastique fantastique boats from France and across. I never hear from them the kind of horror stories one can read in this thread.

If there are any bad modern production boats around then this fact does not have much to do with their being modern designs nor with the fact that they are mass produced.

If any manufacturer resolves to build a bad modern production cruising boat, IMHO this company has an issue. However, I believe that many modern production cruising boats are well designed and well built. Or else the company has nothing to do on today's market.

b.
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Old 25-07-2013, 18:03   #296
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Re: Modern Production Cruisers at Sea

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Originally Posted by neilpride View Post
Windows and portholes glued to the sides are glued in some cases with Sika, and the proper primers,,, and i redone a bunch of this windows, funny is the builder dont use any kind of mechanical atachment , no screws , relying only in the glue, included Catana in the list, in the north climates are holding fine, here in the tropics Lexan spand and contract making the glue work hard, and eventually fail, one solution we found is to tape or paint the side corners of this windows to let the sun dont heat to much the borders and use the best glue avalaible, even one customer want the dam windows screwed because dont believe in the glue alone, Science?
Are you kidding? Do you understand that all skyscraper glass is attached with adhesives (tape even!) and no mechanical fasteners at all? These structures bend, flex, expand and contract much more than boat portholes do. By orders of magnitude.

What about autoglass? Same thing there, although their dynamics are closer to that of boats.

Mechanical fasteners have a much higher and catastrophic failure rate than modern adhesive/sealants.

Even hull/deck joints are stronger and more waterproof using something like Plexus than through bolts.

No superyachts are put together primarily with bolts anymore, let alone all those crazy racing machines wave-jumping around in the Southern Ocean.

Modern adhesives are far superior than mechanical devices for permanent structure attachment and construction.

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Old 25-07-2013, 18:08   #297
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Actually, Don Casey is squarely in the 20th century. The Pardy's on the other hand are 100 years behind him...

Mark
I think we are currently in the 21st century.
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Old 25-07-2013, 18:09   #298
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Re: Modern Production Cruisers at Sea

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Originally Posted by colemj View Post
Are you kidding? Do you understand that all skyscraper glass is attached with adhesives (tape even!) and no mechanical fasteners at all? These structures bend, flex, expand and contract much more than boat portholes do. By orders of magnitude.

What about autoglass? Same thing there, although their dynamics are closer to that of boats.

Mechanical fasteners have a much higher and catastrophic failure rate than modern adhesive/sealants.

Even hull/deck joints are stronger and more waterproof using something like Plexus than through bolts.

No superyachts are put together primarily with bolts anymore, let alone all those crazy racing machines wave-jumping around in the Southern Ocean.

Modern adhesives are far superior than mechanical devices for permanent structure attachment and construction.

Mark
Modern adesives fail in some circunstances, puting that nice windows in their sides glued with sika sounds lame, and like i say , i fix a bunch of this windows , even in a 50 ft we found a window in a dangerous state, with just 2 fingers we pull out the window from the mastic, but other builders use some kind of lewmar portholes , that kind of portholes where you can open or close with 2 handles inside, the uv tape is necesary, why builders put their fate in something called Sika in a so critical area of the hull, a window, and knowing that there is reports from failing windows??
No idea but to me sounds another nice shortcut in production, because a real mechanical porthole is a far better solution and safer.Money talk...

PS, hull to deck joints with plexus?? come onnnnn!!!!!
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Old 25-07-2013, 18:17   #299
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Re: Modern Production Cruisers at Sea

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Shitty osmotic blisters , see valient
Dave
I'm guessing you meant Valiants built by Uniflite. Those famous blisters are not osmotic, rather they are due to uncured resin. As a result they are above the water line as well as below. Osmotic blisters are generally below the water line because the water is needed to complete the osmosis process. But your point is well made regardless of the science of the blisters. Any boat can have them.
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Old 25-07-2013, 18:28   #300
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Re: Modern Production Cruisers at Sea

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I think we are currently in the 21st century.
Well, that is pretty much my whole point...

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