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Old 06-02-2016, 11:23   #1
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Modern Liveable Design, "Bluewater", Affordable - Pick any Two

We have been looking for our next boat. Something with some room for guests, nice owners cabin, easy dingy access with some steps down the transom, able to do a passage safely. Looked at nice Swedish boat on the very edge of affordability - lovely boat kind of cramped. Looked at nice big Swedish boat that was perfect - except we would have to keep working to pay for it rather than sail it. A great deck salon that was perfect - except for an alarmingly underbuilt rudder. Another nice modern design - excellent shape well priced - ah except the owner hit a rock and separated the grid from the hull but the broker assures me the $80,000 repair makes it stronger than new.

On Yachtworld, there is perfection. Tied up in the marinas, there are compromises. I think we are going to have to do a lot Goldilocksing before we find one that is just right...
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Old 06-02-2016, 12:11   #2
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Re: Modern Liveable Design, "Bluewater", Affordable - Pick any Two

Yeah, not sure the point of this thread but I think the OP nailed it with the last sentence. Just keep looking, looking, looking, looking, looking.......... People are just going to respond to this thread telling you that their boat is the best...
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Old 06-02-2016, 12:38   #3
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Re: Modern Liveable Design, "Bluewater", Affordable - Pick any Two

So I don't have a boat yet because it won't be until this year that I get to sell my house. I've been picking out boats for the past 10 years! Mostly just on websites, boat shows. So now I've finally narrowed my search to exactly what i think I'll be happy with. Not a specific brand, although 1 brand in particular I'm fond of. However, I have yet to truly shop yet, but I've been watching the market for what suits me. It's a journey and I'm enjoying it now but I might become discouraged a little when it's my time to choose between a,b,c.........
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Old 06-02-2016, 15:31   #4
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Re: Modern Liveable Design, "Bluewater", Affordable - Pick any Two

I almost hate to say it but Salty makes a good point. What's a "Swedish" boat? The few Swedish yards I've heard of build stout boats, an "underbuilt" rudder sounds like some Swede built one in his back yard.


An $80,000 grid repair? In the States, an insurer would total a boat at 50% damage, so that boat must have been worth at least $161k to have been repaired. Does that mean we're looking at forty or fifty foot boats that are less than ten years old? Or, what exactly?


Walk in McDonald's and say "I want to buy lunch" and see how impressed the kid at the counter is. You know, like, do you want to buy it here? Now? Hamburger or Chicken? Got any money? Oh, and was that lunch just for you, or the whole basketball team that walked in with you?


No hint? No lunch.
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Old 06-02-2016, 19:20   #5
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Re: Modern Liveable Design, "Bluewater", Affordable - Pick any Two

Sorry guys.

Just getting philosophical on a Saturday morning.

Some observations more than questions. Fundamentally, there are major tradeoffs between liveability, seaworthiness, and affordability. It becomes quite evident as I make the transition from dreaming to shopping. Or as I explained to my broker, "We aren't shopping yet, we are just looking at the different types of boats to figure out which one we want to buy." Lot's of different boats seem awesome on the internet, but you have to check them out, go and kick the tires as it were.

For example, I would have thought an HR 39 would be a dream boat, but hanging out in the cabin for a while left me with the impression that if I had friends aboard for more than 3 days, I would want them to leave. It's too tight for us. An entirely personal thing.

Even the bluewater aspect is somewhat subjective. I am not a believer that a spade rudder is totally inappropriate for crossing oceans. Depends on the design and condition. We had a look at a Jeanneau 43DS. This boat would check all the boxes for my wife. They are nice boats. Well built too. But I had one look at the diameter of the rudder shaft and how its attached into the boat and decided it is not for me. I am sure there are folks on their second circumnavigation in this type that are perfectly happy. It's just not for me.

Nothing wrong the process and I have no complaints. There is nothing better than looking at boats! My questions are unanswerable until they are answered. For example, is the Moody 42 I am going to look at in Florida next week roomy or a little tight? If we stop in France and check out an Amel Santorin will we fall in love or will the whole package just not feel right?
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Old 07-02-2016, 09:02   #6
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Re: Modern Liveable Design, "Bluewater", Affordable - Pick any Two

I have spent many many hours of time well wasted over the past two years figuring out what I don't want and where I want to to go (Caribbean and Med-5 years). I've learned a great deal and now have a plan.

I have given myself until end-Sept to find an ocean capable catamaran within my budget. If unsuccessful, my fall back is a mono-have a long hard look at HR42 or Corbin 39. Having done two ocean trips of 2000 nm+, I value my safety and will not risk my life between Bermuda and the Azores in a 'plastic fantastic' coastal cruiser-no matter how pretty she may be.

After 40 years of racing (DN & Laser to Navy 44), I have come to appreciate a quality build. If not two hulls, a well maintained retro-cruiser is in my future.

I can sleep and eat anywhere and have nothing to prove to anyone. IMHO blue water and affordable best suit my plans.
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Old 07-02-2016, 09:09   #7
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Re: Modern Liveable Design, "Bluewater", Affordable - Pick any Two

Lots of great choices out there. Good luck and enjoy the search for your next boat.
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Old 07-02-2016, 10:50   #8
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Re: Modern Liveable Design, "Bluewater", Affordable - Pick any Two

Maybe I am not being fair but this thread seems to be preaching the virtues of random search shopping. I think the chance of finding the right boat is much greater if you do enough research to set some parameters up front. This sounds too much like 'I want to see some boats and I'll let you know if one strikes my fancy'.
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Old 07-02-2016, 10:52   #9
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Re: Modern Liveable Design, "Bluewater", Affordable - Pick any Two

Quote:
Originally Posted by waterdog View Post
Tied up in the marinas, there are compromises. I think we are going to have to do a lot Goldilocksing before we find one that is just right...
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Old 07-02-2016, 10:56   #10
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Re: Modern Liveable Design, "Bluewater", Affordable - Pick any Two

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Originally Posted by Dave22q View Post
Maybe I am not being fair but this thread seems to be preaching the virtues of random search shopping.
No. This thread sounds like a bunch of shopper wining and self pity. All boats are compromises. So what? If you can't compromise and do your own work (physically fixing to your liking and safety or doing your homework in buying) then maybe you should take up some other lifestyle or go shopping at the mall.

Good luck.
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Old 07-02-2016, 11:01   #11
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Re: Modern Liveable Design, "Bluewater", Affordable - Pick any Two

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Originally Posted by SaltyMonkey View Post
No. This thread sounds like a bunch of shopper wining and self pity. All boats are compromises. So what? If you can't compromise and do your own work (physically fixing to your liking and safety or doing your homework in buying) then maybe you should take up some other lifestyle or go shopping at the mall.

Good luck.
You may not be aware that waterdog and his family sailed their C34 from Vancouver to MX. He does KNOW his stuff. More busted knuckles to prove it, too. He's not whining, he's sharing, probably just a USA west coast thing... He won't be at some dumb mall either.

http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,5270.0.html
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Old 07-02-2016, 11:30   #12
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Re: Modern Liveable Design, "Bluewater", Affordable - Pick any Two

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Originally Posted by Dave22q View Post
Maybe I am not being fair but this thread seems to be preaching the virtues of random search shopping. I think the chance of finding the right boat is much greater if you do enough research to set some parameters up front. This sounds too much like 'I want to see some boats and I'll let you know if one strikes my fancy'.
There is something to be said for "random search shopping". Sometimes we think we know what we want and tightly focus on that to the point where we miss an opportunity to learn something new.
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Old 07-02-2016, 13:05   #13
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Re: Modern Liveable Design, "Bluewater", Affordable - Pick any Two

Methinks that sometimes the questions can be implied. This one seems to be indirectly asking for suggestions. Yes if we had been told what type boats had been considered and deemed inappropriate up front it might seem easier.
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Old 07-02-2016, 16:04   #14
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Re: Modern Liveable Design, "Bluewater", Affordable - Pick any Two

You say you want a well built and safe boat, and the boat should be bigger than HR 39, but your budget is to small. My next step would be to start looking for some older boats. Maybe you can make the equation work that way. Old boats can be as safe (if they are well built and well maintained) and as big as new ones, and cheaper.
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Old 07-02-2016, 17:34   #15
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Re: Modern Liveable Design, "Bluewater", Affordable - Pick any Two

I am looking at lots of boats. 40 to 46 feet or so. Hopefully not more than 20 years old or thereabouts. And I haven't established a budget yet. I have worked up some numbers on the ten year cost of boat ownership factoring in acquisition, refit, maintenance, and taking out resale. Newer boats compare surprisingly well to older boats. I've re-rigged, repowered, sewn my own sails, stitched drogues, installed watermakers etc. so I am including old and newer boats in my search. The only thing I am not interested in dealing with is delaminated decks or structural issues.

I am not whining. I love this process. I've sold my house and my dear wife has said lets go buy a boat and do this sailing thing again in the decade (hopefully) of time between the point where my son goes to university and grandkids revive ground based interests.

It seems I should have come to the forum with very direct questions as I am clearly pissing people off with observations or philosophical thoughts. So no worries. I'll go away and report back when I've found what I am looking for or have a direct question on a specific aspect of a boat that I can ask a direct question about.

I do by the way advocate looking at boats and not doing all the homework and research on the internet. If only Yachtworld had scratch and sniff...
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