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Old 31-08-2016, 23:30   #91
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Re: Methods to decrease heel

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Originally Posted by thomm225 View Post
There may be exceptions to the rule but the boats in this video pretty much prove that you have to maintain the angle of heel to maintain speed AND pointing.

You can maintain speed with less heeling but you will fall way off the wind as compared to another boat on the same tack of similar design otherwise one of these boats would be sailing with less heel

See the first upwind leg

I don't think it proves anything. These America's cup class yachts are very different design to any and every class of yacht sailing. They are twice the length as a SO40 but the same beam. Perhaps like IOR yachts they need to be healed over to increase the water line, hence poorer performance when sailing flatter.
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Old 01-09-2016, 07:56   #92
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Re: Methods to decrease heel

I think this is where our discussion could get 'too simple'.

We do GET some heel on a windy day and that's when we want to reduce it.

We MAY induce some heel on a light day - e.g. to help sails keep the desired shape.

Both boats are heeling now, but not both for the same reason.

Also, the "desired" heel angle of X degrees - mind the exact amount has been built into the design, in the reverse order though: as the designer knows a boat propelled by wind WILL heel, they draw the hull and rig so that at this X heel angle the boat performs best.

BTW Many will note that with a competitive cat the situation is reversed - getting somewhat MORE heel SOONER is desired to outperform a boat NOT flying the hull.

Just pointers. We are best off discussing only one design at a time.

Cheers,
b.
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Old 01-09-2016, 09:02   #93
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Re: Methods to decrease heel

with my old school CCA boat we all sit on the LEE rail in light air!
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Old 01-09-2016, 19:54   #94
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Re: Methods to decrease heel

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That's a great technique. Someone above suggested putting the traveler up higher but letting off the mainsheet or vang to let the top twist off.



But this is a cheat to allow you to use a sail above its proper wind range. This should never be used inside the sail's normal wind range. Remember the OP's situation was 10 knots (!) of wind.

In 10 knots of wind the main should be twisted a bit anyway - I usually fly the main via telltales and twist , degree or not is key


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Old 02-09-2016, 01:56   #95
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Re: Methods to decrease heel

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In 10 knots of wind the main should be twisted a bit anyway - I usually fly the main via telltales and twist , degree or not is key


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"A bit of twist" and "twisted off" are two different things. We were talking about depowering the main by taking the top part of the sail completely out of action. You let the leech flop but you get the bottom of the sail drawing again by putting the traveler up over the centerline. It's a great technique, but properly used only when there is more wind than the sail can handle, so not in 10 knots of wind.


Another technique to depower the main is to "put it to sleep" by putting on maximum outhaul and vang to make the sail very flat, then feather it by letting down the traveler. This won't work with a baggy sail, obviously. It works well with my new mainsail, however, and I love this technique because it dramatically reduces drag and heeling and you can play with the puffs and lulls easily by playing the traveler and adding a bit of shape (slacking outhaul and vang a bit) when the wind pipes down. This is good also if for some reason you want to sail slowly but with the ability to power up quickly when needed.
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Old 02-09-2016, 10:55   #96
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Re: Methods to decrease heel

Well there is always lift vs. drag... you can always depower the main by twisting or letting it out.. then there's drag... better to reef if you are in the mood for it... I confess I often grumble about having to get out of a comfy lounging recline to reef... I'll resort to letting her luff a bit and hope no one's looking.
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Old 02-09-2016, 11:19   #97
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Re: Methods to decrease heel

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Well there is always lift vs. drag... you can always depower the main by twisting or letting it out.. then there's drag... better to reef if you are in the mood for it... I confess I often grumble about having to get out of a comfy lounging recline to reef... I'll resort to letting her luff a bit and hope no one's looking.
Indeed

As you say, the right solution for a case where you're in wind beyond the sail's wind range is to reef it.

But you don't always have time, and sometimes if it's just a puff, you want to retain the ability to power up again quickly when the puff is over. So it's nice to have these techniques.
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Old 02-09-2016, 16:42   #98
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Re: Methods to decrease heel

just thought of a couple more things looking at my old Bristol today.

When the wind really starts to kick up, I will bring the boom down to almost the top of the cabin lowing sail height.

Also, you can crank in more mast prebend which will flatten the mainsail and give it less lift. Racers do this between races not sure a cruiser will get that active.....then do the standard traveller down, thicker battens, work the sheets/traveler during gusts, steer the boat through the gusts to hold the same angle of heel, etc

If cruising, just ease the sheets and shorten sail.
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Old 02-09-2016, 16:52   #99
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Re: Methods to decrease heel

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I don't think it proves anything. These America's cup class yachts are very different design to any and every class of yacht sailing. They are twice the length as a SO40 but the same beam. Perhaps like IOR yachts they need to be healed over to increase the water line, hence poorer performance when sailing flatter.
Point is they are maintaining the same angle of heel. i mentioned a couple ways to do that above, but a beginner sailer like the OP will not have a clue how to watch the water for gusts and steer accordingly and the others onboard may not know racing technique

Regardless, this is one awesome upwind sailing battle on the first leg after the start by two boats built in different countries and even though NZL is a tad slower, they are a very worthy opponent for many reasons. Also, watch how quickly they turn their boats during the prestart....pretty good sailing it seems to me

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