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Old 29-08-2016, 04:13   #16
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Re: Methods to decrease heel

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Originally Posted by GILow View Post
Half that heel is coming from the weight of that enormous outboard on the rail. Move it to other side and you'll bring the boat level again. :^)

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I since replaced it with a 6hp Yamaha 4-stroke and moved it to the port side. No I lean over that much to port now. Changing motors it seems over did it

Interesting comments from Dockhead... Sometimes I think I have a handle on main trim and the other times I realise that I'm clueless.
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Old 29-08-2016, 04:19   #17
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Re: Methods to decrease heel

Did the heel become an issue when you started motor sailing?

Start motoring and you will increase the apparent wind and you will go faster but will be sailing on your ear.

Fix be reducing sail or reducing revs.... you will still go just as fast or almost so..

Rule #1 .. flat is fast

Rule #2 .. refer Rule #1
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Old 29-08-2016, 04:31   #18
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Re: Methods to decrease heel

I find that a catamaran solves the heeling issue every time...

Apart from this one...

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Old 29-08-2016, 08:42   #19
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Re: Methods to decrease heel

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Originally Posted by lindabarzini View Post

(...)

What are some of the best methods to reduce heel without reducing much speed?
Put in a reef.

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Old 29-08-2016, 09:12   #20
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Re: Methods to decrease heel

Don C L, same is true for my 50 year old Columbia 29 mark 2. 😀
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Old 29-08-2016, 09:43   #21
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Re: Methods to decrease heel

First thing I do when I want to lessen heel is to ease the traveler. Second thing is to ease the mainsheet. Third thing is theoretically to flatten the sail, usually using the vang but if necessary down/outhaul, but it's sometimes easier just to reef it. The order of these somewhat is a matter of preference and somewhat a function of the boat and the conditions, but I think these are the core of the mainsail adjustments.

But the other thing that comes in to play is the foresail. Were you just heeling, or rounding up? If you're heeling excessively and rounding up, then you really should be reefing the main to move the CE forward (in addition to downhaul and other adjustments). If you are using a large genoa, then you should be reefing this too to move the CE forward of the CLR.

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Old 29-08-2016, 10:02   #22
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Re: Methods to decrease heel

Lots of good advice(surprisingly). Will only add that heeling over 30 degrees usually results in loss of speed. Usually just adjusting the sails will reduce heel. We sailed with just the jib and mizzen when in blustery conditions. Still went hull speed. If you are on a sloop, just drop the jib or main in strong winds, depending on direction.
Or get to enjoy sinking the rail into the water. The kids loved to get the tub as far over as possible, so we got use to 40 degrees of heel.
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Old 29-08-2016, 10:25   #23
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Re: Methods to decrease heel

move some weight to the windward side. Water bottles, batteries, extra sails, outboard, even luggage. The boat sails faster standing up.

Several boats I've owned had a heavy side...one side with the galley (icebox), batteries, and a water tank too...so that side was always heeling deeper.

If you have multiple water tanks, you can use them as water ballast by pumping water to the high side.

A canting keel will help too...lol...lemme know how that goes.
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Old 29-08-2016, 10:50   #24
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Re: Methods to decrease heel

I've always wondered about the net effect of the foresail, in particular, under the motorsailing conditions described - close on the wind, but keeping the jib full, not flogging. My gut feel is that since by motorsailing to increase boat speed, you have moved the apparent wind forward, and to keep the jib full you then head farther off the true wind than you would if just sailing. As long as you are motorsailing you could probably get upwind faster and with less heel by furling the jib, reefing the main and trimming it very flat and use it only to reduce rolling.

Motorsail like this, heading more upwind than the layline, until you can cut the engine and have a close but full and fast reach to your destination under sail. It's what I usually do and seems to be a good compromise.
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Old 29-08-2016, 10:57   #25
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Re: Methods to decrease heel

We were in similar conditions today.

Note the heel angle:

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That's 9.4 knots of true wind, about 28 degrees apparent wind angle, 8 degrees of heel.

Later the wind came up a bit and we cracked off some, to 32 degrees:

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12.5 knots of wind, 11 degrees of heel.



You've heard different suggestions about reducing heel, but the first thing is to get the sails trimmed right. If you get them trimmed right and the wind is inside the wind range of the sails, you will not have a problem with heeling and you will not need to do any crude depowering, like letting the traveler down if it was in the right place to begin with. If the problem is there is too much wind for those particular sails, then reef. You should never have to let the traveler down.
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Old 29-08-2016, 11:16   #26
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Re: Methods to decrease heel

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Originally Posted by lindabarzini View Post
This weekend, I went on a great cruise 40 miles from A to B. The wind was perfect so as soon as the main and jib were set we went straight to our destination close-hauled. We were in a 40' Jeanneau Sun Odyssey.

We were probably getting 4.5kts in a 10kt wind so we also motorsailed to 6.2 -6.5kts on average. We had dinner reservations, so we needed to be over 6kts. The wind was coming from the northeast. We were about 40 degrees to the wind. We had about 17-20 degrees of heel. While this wasn't too bad, I wanted to make the new guests more comfortable, especially when eating.

Whenever I let out the main sheet, we lost too much power. What is the best way to reduce heel while still maintaining speed. What about moving the traveller leeward?

The winds must have changed a bit because about an hour after I let out the mainsheet, I tried it again and this time we nicely lost some heel but not speed.

What are some of the best methods to reduce heel without reducing much speed?
not being there it's hard to say but a mere 4.5 kts in ten kts of wind with that much heel in a 40 ft. performance cruiser tells me you were doing several things wrong with sail trim so that's where to begin. that said, the quickest way to reduce weather helm and heel is to depower the upper portion of the main first. to do this without losing pointing ability, raise the traveler to windward and ease the mainsheet. this will twist the sail to keep the lower portion driving while spilling air out of the upper portion. works the same as reefing the main but quicker and easier and maintains better sail shape.

if it begins to blow harder, change to a smaller head sail or reef if you have roller reefing. i see many reef the mainsail first but this is bassackwards when keeping a well balanced boat. so in a nutshell, assuming the sail trim is appropriate in the first place, depower the upper main sail while keeping the lower sail full at the same time keep the boom toward centerline without going above it to keep the boat pointing. heel and weather helm will be decreased removing speed robbing drag from the rudder. if more heel reduction is needed, shorten headsail
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Old 29-08-2016, 11:25   #27
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Re: Methods to decrease heel

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Your traveler was too high. It was probably about right for speed, but if you just want to flatten the boat dropping it a few inches will set the boat back on her feet.

that will lessen heel while reducing pointing ability. better to RAISE the traveler even higher to center the boom and then ease the mainsheet keeping drive and pointing ability with the lower portion of the sail while spilling air out of the top reducing pressure on the upper portion of the mast where it's needed most to reduce heel and therefore helm drag. you'll point higher, go faster.
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Old 29-08-2016, 11:27   #28
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Re: Methods to decrease heel

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We were in similar conditions today.

Note the heel angle:

Attachment 130245
Does the heal angle come as standard as part of the B&W MFD or displays?

This thread has me curious... Even though my sail tomorrow is looking like it will be a broad reach, I might have to head upwind for a little while to see what lean angles my iPhone reports.
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Old 29-08-2016, 11:34   #29
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Re: Methods to decrease heel

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I'm quite happy like this on my SO40 (probably 18-20 knots and with full sails)

I just measured the angle in this photo and got about 18 degrees heel (note that the camera angle makes it look a bit more extreem than it really is). The photo was taken after the wind had picked up and I remember that I was at the edge between sailing with full sails and reefing, hence my guesstimate of 18-20 knots.

I just can't imagine how I could get my boat leaning at that angle with about half that amount of wind. Something must be really going wrong with the OP's sail trim/sails. Or maybe what she is using for the heel angle measurement is very inaccurate.
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Old 29-08-2016, 12:06   #30
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Re: Methods to decrease heel

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Originally Posted by hoppy View Post
Does the heal angle come as standard as part of the B&W MFD or displays?

This thread has me curious... Even though my sail tomorrow is looking like it will be a broad reach, I might have to head upwind for a little while to see what lean angles my iPhone reports.
No -- that is a user-defined 9-field screen. Heel angle is available from the Airmar H2183 gyro stabilized compass.

That screen is configured to give me the main things I like to know making passage upwind -- VMG to waypoint, heel angle, rudder angle, COG, SOG, DTW, etc. It's different from the SailScreen screen on the B&G plotters which is very nice, with much nicer graphics, but more racing oriented. Doesn't have COG, SOG, or curiously, VMG.
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