Merged- Windigo Abandoned. Please Help

[djaustralia]

Originally Posted by Sam Plan B

If the boat is uninsured how will you pay the salvager? Do you have shore side funds equal to 10%-25% of the value of the vessel? If not, why would I bother with it? Why would I not be on my way and offer you my sympathy? And by the way, if the rig and sails are intact and the boat floating, why was the boat abandoned? After all nothing can move water faster than a frightened man with a bucket.

Watch the vid' of tania and shane being rescued. Theres no need for a bucket here! With rig intact, boat upright and sitting level at the waterline I guess they had their own personal or sychological reasons for wanting off. By the way, if in a 10m swell in 50 knot winds, it's virtually immpossible to "bail" water from a yacht (sloshing water-if its accessable at all,stairs,hatchway,washed out cockpit). an open hull "tinny" maybe but not something with an enclosed cabin. If you have a severe damage and water coming in you need a chain of crew and multiple buckets to perform this task, all the while in a rolling hull. Best of luck with that! In that situation you need an EPERB, not a bucket!

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by djaustralia

With rig intact, boat upright and sitting level at the waterline I guess they had their own personal or sychological reasons for wanting off.

Not sure if you have read the entire thread, but early on there was mention of them being injured (or at least being worried that their knocks might be worse than they turned out to be).....although I do kinda see these folks in the numpty class of voyaging folks by over relying on good fortune - and with no real appreciation of what could be faced and is "normal" (albeit scary and unpleasant!)........but at the end of the day I wasn't onboard, so I do respect the Skipper's decision to shout for help and get everyone rescued - and as everyone survived then it was clearly not a completely wrong decision (whether their were better decisions to be made is another thing!, albeit I suspect most of those could have been made in port or long ago).

[Blue Crab]

http://www.coastalmariner.com/two-cr...-runs-aground/

Interesting read about a chainsaw massacre off the beach in Cape Lookout National Seashore. Like Windigo on all 4s. Found it searching for updates on the abandoned boat reported here last week.

[djaustralia]

Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey

Not sure if you have read the entire thread, but early on there was mention of them being injured (or at least being worried that their knocks might be worse than they turned out to be).....although I do kinda see these folks in the numpty class of voyaging folks by over relying on good fortune - and with no real appreciation of what could be faced and is "normal" (albeit scary and unpleasant!)........but at the end of the day I wasn't onboard, so I do respect the Skipper's decision to shout for help and get everyone rescued - and as everyone survived then it was clearly not a completely wrong decision (whether their were better decisions to be made is another thing!, albeit I suspect most of those could have been made in port or long ago).

I guess it's wrong for any of us to judge tania and shane. They're still alive so they did something right. I once read a book titled "A VOYAGE FOR MADMEN", an account of 9 solo sailors who tackled a round world yacht race in 1968. Only 1 made it back!!!. Passing the 3 main capes from england and return. Most retired and one died, suspected of taking his own life after keeping false records and rushing the build of his tri hull (across several builders) which resulted in poor workmanship. These guys were true seaman capable of tackling anything the sea could throw at them. With only the stars to guide them, the occassional land based radio beacon to give them an accurate position and a rough idea of what weather to expect in different areas. I believe a lot of modern day sailors (under age 50) do not have the capabilities or the aquired knowledge to go to sea. They rely to much on electronics. I'm the first to confess that I can sail a yacht but I am definately not a mariner capable of any sea going trip. The weather on planet earth can mostly be predictable but this is mother nature we're talking about, there's no guarantee's for anyone who goes to sea. Best wishes to all who sail. yours sincerely, Dirk.

[perchance]

If the owners of Windigo are financially responsible for the clean up of their abandoned vessel does that mean the Japanese are responsible for the clean up of all the Tsunami debris that is washing up on the west coast of North America?
I am aware that they have contributed money for clean up but is that more a gesture of good will or a legal requirement?

[shorebird]

The Japanese are not responsible for an act of God. The clean-up money is an act of goodwill.

[Blue Crab]

Originally Posted by shorebird

The Japanese are not responsible for an act of God. The clean-up money is an act of goodwill.

I'm no God expert but the Japanese don't believe in that God anyway, FAIK.

[perchance]

Yes but I'd bet a lot of them do now.

[S/V Alchemy]

Contrary to popular belief(s), surviving a natural disaster does not necessarily instill religion in a previously unreligious person. There are atheists in foxholes...but they are too busy ducking thanks to a decent knowledge of physics.

Which is also handy offshore.

[perchance]

A little enlightenment goes a long way.

[carstenb]

Originally Posted by djaustralia

I believe a lot of modern day sailors (under age 50) do not have the capabilities or the aquired knowledge to go to sea. They rely to much on electronics. I'm the first to confess that I can sail a yacht but I am definately not a mariner capable of any sea going trip. The weather on planet earth can mostly be predictable but this is mother nature we're talking about, there's no guarantee's for anyone who goes to sea. Best wishes to all who sail. yours sincerely, Dirk.

Dirk, this is a very true statement. Many sail far off shore today who simply do not have the skills necessary. Not only navigation, but pure sailing. Boats have gotten much beeter and much more forgiving since the invention of fiberglass. Many think that sailing in 50 knot winds is only slightly more taxing than 30 knots. Let me clue them in, 50 knots starts getting really hairy. Small mistakes become major issues that result in all kinds of broken gear (or bones). Steering wears out the helmsman in no time. If there are only two persons onboard, both are exhausted after 12-16 hours.

Don't forget, 50 years ago you got knighted for sailing around the world, today you have trouble getting you book published becausebthere are already so many on the market.

[S/V Alchemy]

Originally Posted by carstenb

Dirk, this is a very true statement. Many sail far off shore today who simply do not have the skills necessary. Not only navigation, but pure sailing.

This is why crewing on deliveries is a great way to learn (before you spend tens to hundreds of thousands on fitting out) if you even like ocean sailing.

A lot of modern designs are fast and light displacement...which is indeed a pleasure to sail. But their motion in a seaway can be exhausting compared to fuller-keeled and heavier boats with properly allocated stowage (out of the ends). The absence of proper sea berths in the middle of the boat, the inability to heave to (or to tow drogues or warps, both of which generally want hull strongbacks, not the usual stainless dock cleats) can exhaust crews who discover that the AP won't work well after 30 knots, nor will the windvane if rising swells are blanketing the wind.

To get a truly ocean-capable "fast cruiser" is expensive (Saga 43s, Swans, J-Boat cruisers, etc.), but boats that look more or less alike (Dufour, new Beneteaus, Catalinas...ok, not Catalinas...) are not necessarily fun in a real blow.

Note I did not say "unsafe"...that's a different topic.

To sail or heave to such designs requires skills some sailors don't possess. Better to head into a blow with an Alberg to figure it all out first, but who actually does that?

[foolishsailor]

I have been taking a bit of a "CF Holiday" but feel I must respond to this thread.

Even for CF this thread is so full of self righteous BS that I am left floored.

I wonder if the rest of the world was populated with the same percentage of people in this thread who are so responsible and so reliable why is the world in so much trouble? I mean if all the members of this thread were so honerable to their debts, and I can think of some posters in this thread who might want to think twice about posting so vociferously on this point, why is it that there are so many social ills.

It is amazing that no one has pulled the "armchair critic" card yet? Am I the first poster reading this thread who has vomited in their mouth at the self righteous, arm chair total ******** that has infected this thread?

I love most the posters who have no history of blue water cruising commenting in depth about how people should behave when they are hurt and frightened.

Where are the defenders with common sense that have actually been in the **** and know how the mind doesn't work rationally to come to these people's defence?

Seriously, I can't name a single person in this thread who actually has the personal or professional experience to really comment on whether these people should or shouldn't be held responsible for their boat ending up on the beach.

[ElGatoGordo]

Wow that's Sooooooo much nonsense it's near insanity. I dub you "Drama King"

If a man leaves to climb a mountain without a jacket or rope, by your logic, only another climber could truly know if he was unprepared.

Where I live, if my boat causes harm, I'm responsible. Maybe it's different I'm your kingdom.

Note I have never questioned the decision to abandon ship, I wasn't there. But any dammed man (even one who's never crossed the big blue) can see that in hindsight, the boat was fine. The people on the other hand...

I suspect your holiday was too short.

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by foolishsailor

Shame on all of you, I am embarrassed to be part of this community.

Well, on the basis that your post was likely written with your string hat on rather than your Mod one I feel comfortable in responding with a "GFYS" (PM me if you need a translation)....errrr, a play nice one .

Most folks haven't been up Mount Everest but are nonetheless capable of using both experiance gained personally elsewhere (including from simply climbing stairs ) and their noodles to tell when someone has contributed to own misfortune when things did not go as planned - without the need to either walk up Everest themselves. or fall off. But, as always, likely a YMMV thing .

Me also thinks your holiday was a bit too short........