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Old 25-11-2012, 10:19   #76
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Re: Merged- Windigo Abandoned. Please Help

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And by the way, if the rig and sails are intact and the boat floating, why was the boat abandoned? After all nothing can move water faster than a frightened man with a bucket.
Both had sustained head injuries and one a back injury. How serious or trivial those turned out to be, I don't know, and since neither were physicians, I suspect they did not know either. With head injuries, though, it is best to err on the side of caution. It does not take much to make a minor head injury appear much worse than it is, but by the same token, what appears relatively minor can hide a life threatening condition.
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Old 25-11-2012, 13:14   #77
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Re: Merged- Windigo Abandoned. Please Help

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Originally Posted by S/V Alchemy View Post
but I felt obliged to point out that the formerly unlikely event of running down another yacht on the ocean is arguably greater today than in the past.
Not much chance in that part of the world.

When we did the passage from Tonga to Sydney it took us 16 days and pre AIS but with crew we had to look out and saw ONE ship in that 16 days and that was anchored off the Australian coast north of Sydney.

I never see a ship now. I Just hear the computer Ping from my cabin.

But I do agree we need as few bits of floating hazard as possible.

For Sam Plan B if you found the boat and towed it to Australia or New Zealand the Admiralty court would give you 90% of the value of the boat.
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Old 25-11-2012, 13:39   #78
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Re: Merged- Windigo Abandoned. Please Help

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If the boat is uninsured how will you pay the salvager? Do you have shore side funds equal to 10%-25% of the value of the vessel? If not, why would I bother with it? Why would I not be on my way and offer you my sympathy? And by the way, if the rig and sails are intact and the boat floating, why was the boat abandoned? After all nothing can move water faster than a frightened man with a bucket.
I think you are dreaming in your estimate of the salvage costs at 10 to 15%. I have seen salvage awards that were millions of dollars more than the value of the vessel. We'll see.

foolishsailor: "no certifying authority that puts a stamp on a boat labeling it Bluewater Capable."
True. And I'm glad there isn't, because it would still be all about selling boats. But some of us have sailed hundreds boats in every conceivable condition, professionally, in a career spanning 50 odd years. If you don't think us qualified to make statements based on our experience then what exactly would you like to have posted?

Mr. B,
Common practice is to cover the holes with a sail on the outside, until temporary repairs can be completed from the inside. That should reduce the load on your 6 pumps to where they might keep up with the inflow.
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Old 25-11-2012, 15:53   #79
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Re: Merged- Windigo Abandoned. Please Help

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But some of us have sailed hundreds boats in every conceivable condition, professionally, in a career spanning 50 odd years. If you don't think us qualified to make statements based on our experience then what exactly would you like to have posted?
I'm gonna respectfully call BS on your expertise, :-) for the simple reason that someone with that much experience and knowledge couldn't help but to have more understanding and empathy with mere mortal sailors, compared to your "God-like" expertise.

If there's one thing I can't bear as a human being, it's semi-experts that bolster their image by sneering down their noses as people that are less expert than themselves.

Can't we just show a little empathy and sympathy to these poor people that have just potentially seen their life flash before their eyes, and lost a boat that I would consider a wildest dream come true boat? The criticizers may be the worlds greatest sailors, but to me they just come across as sour people.
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Old 25-11-2012, 16:18   #80
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Re: Merged- Windigo Abandoned. Please Help

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I'm gonna respectfully call BS on your expertise, :-) for the simple reason that someone with that much experience and knowledge couldn't help but to have more understanding and empathy with mere mortal sailors, compared to your "God-like" expertise.

If there's one thing I can't bear as a human being, it's semi-experts that bolster their image by sneering down their noses as people that are less expert than themselves.

Can't we just show a little empathy and sympathy to these poor people that have just potentially seen their life flash before their eyes, and lost a boat that I would consider a wildest dream come true boat? The criticizers may be the worlds greatest sailors, but to me they just come across as sour people.
Nice first post.....Welcome aboard...
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Old 25-11-2012, 16:21   #81
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Re: Merged- Windigo Abandoned. Please Help

One never knows when they will find themselves in a bad situation, and it is easy to set back and throw stones. A sadly frequent occurence on this forum.
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Old 25-11-2012, 16:52   #82
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Re: Merged- Windigo Abandoned. Please Help

condolences for your lost home. in regards to some comments on this post regarding leaving the engine running is actually smart as the engine will keep the batteries charged and the bilge pump running till the motor dies from lack of fuel then the fully charged batteries left will run the bilge-pump [or pumps} till batteries fail. not an unsmart move if confident to find yacht in few days. i have never left an uninsured vessel at risk but can feel the stress of these owners predicament. hope you recover your bene and perhaps the rental of a small single engine aircraft to scout the area might be worthwhile{floatplane on calm seas could even drop you off nearby} ...just a thought...our bilge pumps are hard-wired into the solar panels for safety as the boat sits at dock for months on end without supervision. this charges the batteries and runs the bilge-pumps, every other electrical device is secondary and shut-off till ew return in season. cheers and best wishes....
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Old 25-11-2012, 16:52   #83
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Re: Merged- Windigo Abandoned. Please Help

I wonder if throwing stones a people helps us rehearse in our minds what we would do in that situation?

If its just negative criticism I agree with you. But if we can critically analyze what has happened and turn it into a learning thing then I think it's well worth it.

One thing that's been mentioned is fear.
Talking about fear is a scary thing!
Weirdly enough there is one industry in all our countries that actually TEACH fear and what it does, and hopefully how to control it. but in their teaching they can never asses what incidents will provoke what fear response in what people.
What's the industry?
The Army.
Officers are taught about it. It's better to acknowledge it and make it a science that to pretend people won't be scared out of their watts when someone is shooting at them.

In this case, and the Bounty sinking (maybe the converse of fear), we can learn more about how we deal with certain situations.

If we do get stuck in a bad storm and the boat is being knocked around badly, and we are injured how do we set ourselves up best to control our fear and perform to the best of our abilities.
In this case we can never know if their moment to push the red button was the "correct" moment. Of course, there never is the correct moment.

In the days before EPIRBs people used to jump into the liferaft before they "needed" to... Don't step into a liferaft till you need to step UP...
So there is a history of psychology about people in fear of their lives.

What the army teaches is that no one really knows how they will react until the situation is life threatening. The army would love to know which offices will walk towards an enemy and which will deploy left or right. But they will not know till real bullets are fired.
Further, who is to say what's right? Fight or evade?

So lets use this situation and the Bounty to rehearse in our minds what we would do.

My things are: don't go out in developing bad weather, sail in the correct season, and find a comfortable secure cocoon in the boat where padded and warm I won't be injured while the boat is tossed about.


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Old 25-11-2012, 17:02   #84
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Re: Merged- Windigo Abandoned. Please Help

Deploy the sea anchor, batten down the hatches and crawl in your bunk to ride it out, bad weather can't last forever, even if it seems like it does.
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Old 25-11-2012, 17:12   #85
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There are techniques for dragging the sail under from the deck, at least for a monohull.
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Old 26-11-2012, 02:55   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisbitz

I'm gonna respectfully call BS on your expertise, :-) for the simple reason that someone with that much experience and knowledge couldn't help but to have more understanding and empathy with mere mortal sailors, compared to your "God-like" expertise.

If there's one thing I can't bear as a human being, it's semi-experts that bolster their image by sneering down their noses as people that are less expert than themselves.

Can't we just show a little empathy and sympathy to these poor people that have just potentially seen their life flash before their eyes, and lost a boat that I would consider a wildest dream come true boat? The criticizers may be the worlds greatest sailors, but to me they just come across as sour people.
Well said chrisbitz, and welcome aboard!
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Old 26-11-2012, 02:58   #87
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Re: Merged- Windigo Abandoned. Please Help

I think I would much prefer to face a Marine Board of Inquiry than the CF Court of Damnation.

At least the former might be objective and perhaps the members could even have real sea time experience.

Those posters who have remained non-judgemental or only engaged in critical analysis, I salute you, the others (and you know who you are), I pass wind in your general direction.
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Old 26-11-2012, 03:19   #88
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Re: Merged- Windigo Abandoned. Please Help

This might be helpful.........

Master List of Logical Fallacies

......or it might not .
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Old 26-11-2012, 03:35   #89
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Re: Merged- Windigo Abandoned. Please Help

As someone once noted, "those people who think they know it all - really piss off those of us that do...."
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Old 26-11-2012, 04:24   #90
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Re: Merged- Windigo Abandoned. Please Help

Thread drift - Hey Mr. B Watch who you call armchair sailors, maybe in the big picture your the armchair sailor? And once again its more than likely that your anchoring skill, lack of scope, 2 anchors, and closness to shore caused your grounding. Many here have offered advice but you still insist you did all you could. Enough with the cat story allready.
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