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Old 24-11-2012, 21:41   #61
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Re: Merged- Windigo Abandoned. Please Help

I certainly hope that if the vessel is found that it is not returned to them. They did everything wrong from the start when they failed to prepare with proper heavy weather tactics, eqipment and training, failing to get a forecast, willingly sailing on a bad forecast or not being capable of safely handling the boat in bad weather. BTW, this weather system was very well forecast and was not a cyclone but was the first tropical depression of the season. They copped it in its transition into extratropical storm which is often the most dangerous phase as wind speed is still high but the extent of the storm is greater.
They grabbed the mommy machine and pressed the help me button when things got uncomfortable and subsequently put others at high risk.
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Old 24-11-2012, 21:59   #62
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Re: Merged- Windigo Abandoned. Please Help

The grapevine tells me Windigo is under tow today. Anybody else know?
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Old 24-11-2012, 23:54   #63
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Re: Merged- Windigo Abandoned. Please Help

MarkJ
No, I did not watch "the video", I was going by the OP. Their words, not mine. "no bilge, Our bilge pump broke down during storm". Singular!
They obviously had lost faith in their ability to survive on that boat. Uninsured and still they abandoned the boat, WITH THE MAIN HATCH OPEN and the ENGINE RUNNING. Come on, they couldn't wait to get off it.
In hindsight, they now may wish to have it back, but I doubt that they can afford the salvage, unless by someone's kindness it won't cost normal salvage fees, which can exceed the value of a vessel.
IMO it is still a fair statement; many, many boats that people are sailing offshore are NOT built well enough nor designed for that purpose. And most of them get away with it, by shear good fortune (Neptune can be kind, at times). But that just does not change the facts.
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Old 25-11-2012, 04:30   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by capta
MarkJ
No, I did not watch "the video", I was going by the OP. Their words, not mine. "no bilge, Our bilge pump broke down during storm". Singular!
They obviously had lost faith in their ability to survive on that boat. Uninsured and still they abandoned the boat, WITH THE MAIN HATCH OPEN and the ENGINE RUNNING. Come on, they couldn't wait to get off it.
In hindsight, they now may wish to have it back, but I doubt that they can afford the salvage, unless by someone's kindness it won't cost normal salvage fees, which can exceed the value of a vessel.
IMO it is still a fair statement; many, many boats that people are sailing offshore are NOT built well enough nor designed for that purpose. And most of them get away with it, by shear good fortune (Neptune can be kind, at times). But that just does not change the facts.
It is true that many boats may not be built for offshore work... but other than the single bilge pump, it is not the boat that had issues here, but the sailors. The boat seems to have come thru things pretty well.

If that boat infact rolled (which I have my doubts) as the crew says, then that rigging is pretty strong... it's clearly shown to still be standing and in decent shape (sails still furled nicely). The crew bailed on the boat and their situation early IMHO. I also put the single bilge pump issue not on the manufacturer, but on the captain. I don't see how anybody could be happy with a single method of putting water back onto the outside of the boat.
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Old 25-11-2012, 05:15   #65
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Re: Merged- Windigo Abandoned. Please Help

It is not yet cyclone season in this part of the world. That Dana 24 still in Tonga will be pushing it though.

It seems people here keep referring to sailing in a hurricane. It was just a storm, perhaps a large sub tropical low, but just a storm they often get in these waters.

WELL over half the boats out world cruising these days are not fit for offshore sailing. Probably was always the case, but there were a lot less in total and those guys just died or floated around in life rafts for months and later wrote books about it.

Perhaps some type of international rescue insurance should be required with the purchase of an EPIRB?
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Old 25-11-2012, 05:57   #66
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Re: Merged- Windigo Abandoned. Please Help

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Originally Posted by Boatguy30 View Post
It is not yet cyclone season in this part of the world. That Dana 24 still in Tonga will be pushing it though.

?
Met.gov.to says November is the beginning of the Wet Season also known as the Cyclone Season through to next April 2013. An average of 1 to 2 cyclone to affect Tonga in a season.

Quote:
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In hindsight, they now may wish to have it back, but I doubt that they can afford the salvage, unless by someone's kindness it won't cost normal salvage fees, which can exceed the value of a vessel.
I agree, salvage would be 90% as there is little change of expectation of recovery, and a long, difficult recovery if done if by another cruiser. If by a salvage vessel then yep, the tow fee.

Here's the only reference I could find for salvage..

Quote:
The tug itself is estimated to cost $12,000 per day for charter costs. The pricing of this is primarily due to fuel costs, with only about $2000 daily coming from crew and food costs.
So either way its expensive.

I hope Pete is right and someone has it caught it.
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Old 25-11-2012, 06:02   #67
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Re: Merged- Windigo Abandoned. Please Help

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Originally Posted by sarafina View Post
... I hope they find their boat. First thing I would do is rename her. That is a HELL of a name.. and not in a good way!

Here's what I read on the Internet: "Windigo Psychosis is a disorder involving an insatiable craving for human flesh, coupled with the fear of becoming a cannibal." Windigo Psychosis : Top 10 Little-Known Disorders : Science Channel

I'm guessing they didn't know this. They probably just thought Wind and Indigo made a nice name.............................................. ................NOT!

I also guess a rig could survive a rollver with the sails furled.
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Old 25-11-2012, 06:03   #68
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We have been bangng on about boats not being offshore capable and what is the definition of bluewater boat on so many threads...

It is all BS really. There is no certifying authority that puts a stamp on a boat labeling it Bluewater Capable. Most of the opinions about production boats not falling into this class are just that, opinions. They are just repeated like chinese whispers from one cruisers ear to another.

How many who say a Bene for example, is not bluewater capable have actually spoken to a marine engineer or naval architect about the design and material strengths of the hull? None. It is just an oft repeated mantra and dogma that is polar opposite to the facts.

In fact this event perfectly illustrates the real world issues, not the story book issues...

...as i have said over and over it is the organics that fail well before the composites.

Bluewater capable is defined by the capability of the crew not the boat.

And sad to say this couple were pushed across their threshold well before the hull was.
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Old 25-11-2012, 07:22   #69
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Re: Merged- Windigo Abandoned. Please Help

Floohish

I can only agree. Apparently the boat survived the roll( or knockdown or whatever). The persons on board chose to abandon ship. I have a 40 ft Jeanneau that I intend to RTW. So I damn well hope it makes it. I also intend to sail the weather windows and try not to get caught out. Having said all that, I am sure the boat will survive almost anything that will be thrown at it. MMy wife and I are another story perhaps, even though we are both very level headed and used to dealing with extremely stressful situations.

The fact that the boat might be a navigation menace only proves it is seaworthy enough
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Old 25-11-2012, 07:46   #70
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Re: Merged- Windigo Abandoned. Please Help

You know the last position of the boat, get a current chart and follow which way the currents are running, follow the wind patterns where the boat was last seen,
Put them together and that will give you a fair idea where the boat will end up.

I did that with a boat that was abandoned in the Coral sea, and I was about 200 miles out, with my predictions on its land fall,

If it gets close to land, any bigger decent sized motor boat will drag it back to a safe mooring where it can be pumped out,

Its 40 foot long, a 25 foot fishing boat with twin outboards will tow it easily, If the sea is rough, wait a couple of days till it settles down, The ocean is not always huge seas,

As for filling up with water and the damage involved, Yes, you get crap sloshing every where and it is all very soggy, oil, grease, paint food, clothing, bedding, its all mixed together, and is a right mess,
Hose it out and its clean again,

But as for structural damage, zip, The paint and oils get washed out of the timber, dry it out and repaint or oil it or varnish, it comes up like new again,

I had holes in the hulls on my Cat, it was a right mess, it was also full of sand, all the electrics were toast, Oil, food clothing, parts, etc was everywhere inside,

It was hosed out, every thing was chucked in the bin, it was totally stuffed, but it washed out very clean again,

Structurally, there was nothing wrong with it, just holes in both hulls, It still had the full rig standing,
The six bilge pumps I had running were bloody useless, The manual pump which two of us were taking turns on was bloody useless as well,

Untill your taking on water in a big way, you have no idea on what those bilge pumps can actually pump,

The ones usually installed on boats from the manufacturer, are for getting a couple of buckets of water out.
They are not serious bilge pumps if you knock out a thru hull fitting, If you do knock one out your in serious ****,

All New electrics, and two new hulls rebuiilt, My boat will be better than new, It will also have four high pressure, high volume, bilge pumps fitted, as well as the six little ones reinstalled, Engine was undamaged, the prop got wrecked,

my boat went through 6 tide changes sitting on the rocks before it was salvaged,

200 Nautical miles from shore, its very hard to get insurance, I sailed from Fiji to Australia with out it, But once I was in Australian waters, I could get insurance, lucky for me, I did,

These people got injured, who are you to say they weren't injured enough to be taken off their boat, When you first get injured, your pains are a lot higher than two or three days later when you have partially recovered,

Its a bloody bad feeling when you have to leave your boat behind, I know this when I left mine on the rocks on the beach,
I got crap from the armchair sailors for having the wrong anchoring techniques, I went from dead calm to on the rocks in ten minutes, and I was asleep at the time, I also have an anchor bent at 30 degrees from it,

These people asked for help to find their boat, not critiscism, or how stupid they were, whether they can sail or not is a different story,
Some times there is more to a story than what a few videos or storys from my mates friends sisters dog can get across on an internet forum,

Their lucky their not dead,

Cheers,
Brian,
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Old 25-11-2012, 07:56   #71
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Re: Merged- Windigo Abandoned. Please Help

Sh**t happens. I hope they get their boat back.
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Old 25-11-2012, 09:19   #72
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Re: Merged- Windigo Abandoned. Please Help

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Obviosly no risk since I was again standing watch but if I had been like the skippers of these other two boats this would be a different story.
I have had the experience of having to alter course to avoid a right-angle collision on Lake Ontario, in full daylight, in October.

A 27 footer was noted headed NNW about three miles off Port Hope. We were heading WSW back to Toronto. I saw the boat about two miles off. I found it unlikely but undeniable that it maintained the same relative angle to us, indicating a potential collision. Long story short, we ducked his stern and gave him a horn blast and verbal encouragement to keep a watch. He had been down below making coffee...or whatever...and had let the AP handle the helm. He probably thought...and would have usually been correct...that he had been alone on the lake, it being cool and late in the season.

I think the increasing reliance on APs and known waypoints taken from cruiser's guides and other resources is actually making mid-ocean/island-to-island encounters more likely, rather than less. If boats are using "accepted waypoints", they are steering in a far narrower area of ocean than a boat which is hand-steered or windvane steered, which will feature a more irregular and undulating track.

Night passages done while the crew is below, under AP, with no light, is poor seamanship. If the lat/lons plugged in the AP (instead of just sailing to a heading, or to a point near a suggested waypoint or nav aid) is, in my view, poor seamanship.

Sorry for the thread drift, but I felt obliged to point out that the formerly unlikely event of running down another yacht on the ocean is arguably greater today than in the past. While there is no reason to suspect it's common, there's also no reason to assume it's vanishingly unlikely given the evolving habits of the passagemaking sailor set.
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Old 25-11-2012, 09:23   #73
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Re: Merged- Windigo Abandoned. Please Help

[QUOTE=kbudd;1091180]I was wondering the same thing. How can you have a charter business with no insurance?[/QUOT

Never mind the no insurance. Would you charter with these people knowing what we know now? As far as abandoning the boat, everyone has their own tolerance for terror. The boat survived intact and appears to be sailable so in a different scenario where they had no E-pirb or radio they would have been forced to rely on their own resources and most likely come through the ordeal
relatively unscathed, their boat certainly did.
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Old 25-11-2012, 09:46   #74
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Re: Merged- Windigo Abandoned. Please Help

Quote:
Sorry for the thread drift, but I felt obliged to point out that the formerly unlikely event of running down another yacht on the ocean is arguably greater today than in the past. While there is no reason to suspect it's common, there's also no reason to assume it's vanishingly unlikely given the evolving habits of the passagemaking sailor set.
I still think the odds are closer to the "vanishingly unlikely" range, and I don't see why this drifting vessel is significantly more dangerous than anything else floating around out there. For example, I'm sure there are a lot more logs and containers floating around than sailboats. As usual, most of us worry about the wrong things.
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Old 25-11-2012, 10:00   #75
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Re: Merged- Windigo Abandoned. Please Help

If the boat is uninsured how will you pay the salvager? Do you have shore side funds equal to 10%-25% of the value of the vessel? If not, why would I bother with it? Why would I not be on my way and offer you my sympathy? And by the way, if the rig and sails are intact and the boat floating, why was the boat abandoned? After all nothing can move water faster than a frightened man with a bucket.
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