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Old 23-11-2012, 18:27   #46
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Re: Merged- Windigo Abandoned. Please Help

I was just thinking today how much likelier you would be to stay with and save the boat if you are WITHOUT insurance. I am surprised not that they didn't have insurance, but that they would have left the boat. They must have been in a real hard way.

Also, plenty of folks doing illegal "charters" with no insurance. No US flagged would (or should) dream of it as it will be you in a US court defending yourself if someone were yo get hurt. Not the case with most other countries.

On the subject of boat types and conditions, I have recently been doing some work on a 40' Colin Archer. The owner is not that experienced, but commented how new designs seem to be a lot different than his boat. IE super wide sterns and 2 wheels on 40' monos. I was then thinking that most people don't sail in conditions that one might have experienced 40 years ago offshore with the better weather forecasting. I have run that stretch twice from NZ to Tonga and had pretty good weather both times, plenty also get slammed just a few days apart.

To the guy thinking 30' seas and 50 knot winds are no big deal and someone circumnavigating would be "lucky" to avoid those conditions? You must be either joking or completely unaware of reality. Plenty of that going around these days.
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Old 23-11-2012, 18:44   #47
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Re: Merged- Windigo Abandoned. Please Help

Having had to sit by, biting my nails as friends were on that same passage when the storm hit there is no way I would ever second guess Windigo's decision to abandon ship. I was watching the weather during the storm and it was pretty damned hairy.

I am thankful that Steve and Tania are okay. When we first heard the reports as events were unfolding, their condition was unknown and I can tell you even though I don't know them, I was holding my breath that they would be ok. It could have easily been much, much worse. There but for the grace of God... Hopefully they will be reunited with their boat soon.

As to our armchair quarterbacks, you really have no idea what you would do in a similar situation. You can tell us what you'd LIKE to think you would do but until you are in the thick of it, your opinion is just theory, not reality.
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Old 23-11-2012, 19:08   #48
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Re: Merged- Windigo Abandoned. Please Help

I often check in to the Sockdolanger blog, a couple sailing a Dana 24, so far from the PNW to Tonga. Recently one of the crew had some heart troubles and they ended up flying to New Zealand for further tests where she has remained, while her partner has flown back to the boat to await the arrival of a friend who will help him sail her to New Zealand. Karen has recently posted a bit of a rant on the Windingo event, sharing a perspective I hadn't thought much about initially - namely the real danger this boat presents to the many boats currently waiting to make that Tonga/ New Zealand passage. For anyone interested:

Karen and Jim's Excellent Adventure
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Old 23-11-2012, 19:19   #49
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Re: Merged- Windigo Abandoned. Please Help

Why is there a particular danger hitting this boat compared to all the other short-handed cruising sailboats out there with crew down below not watching? I have sailed within feet offshore of another boat being singlehanded and nobody was on deck and my shouts didn't rouse him either--I dodged him and went on my way. Lots of other stuff floating around out there too. For that matter, lots of commercial boats run on autopilot when offshore. I read the rant, and it is just that. I can understand legitimate criticism of the crew's actions, but it doesn't help to get hysterical.
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Old 23-11-2012, 19:36   #50
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Re: Merged- Windigo Abandoned. Please Help

The last 2 excellent posts by Mimsey and Terminalcitygrl do cover the spectrum of emotions and observations about the event

Whether reading all of the comments is helpful to those who have never been tested, realize it is done at the expense of 2 real people who have just had a major scare

I am sure that Steve and Tania are doing some serious soul searching and introspection about their performance after their knockdown. Whatever decisions they make in moving forward …. be it farming or back to sea… I wish them well.

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Old 23-11-2012, 19:55   #51
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Originally Posted by Kettlewell
Why is there a particular danger hitting this boat compared to all the other short-handed cruising sailboats out there with crew down below not watching? I have sailed within feet offshore of another boat being singlehanded and nobody was on deck and my shouts didn't rouse him either--I dodged him and went on my way. Lots of other stuff floating around out there too. For that matter, lots of commercial boats run on autopilot when offshore.
Having a watch is one thing... but this boat won't have any lights either, and won't be making any engine noise.
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Old 23-11-2012, 21:48   #52
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Re: Merged- Windigo Abandoned. Please Help

Anyone who has sailed offshore knows how infinitely small the chance of running into another boat is, regardless of whether it is being actively sailed or lit at night. The chance of no one seeing this boat is thousands of times as big as the chance of someone hitting it.

I remember coming in to Bermuda once, when the radio was broadcasting the position of an abandoned boat about 50 miles south of the island. It was daylight, so I went right over the coordinates given--no boat in sight or on radar.

Finding an abandoned boat without a tracker is not easy, but it has happened. Two different friends abandoned their boats with broken rudders in the Atlantic 800 miles short of their circumnavigations. One ended up on the rocks of Barbados, and one was towed in by the Barbuda harbormaster.
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Old 23-11-2012, 22:14   #53
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Re: Merged- Windigo Abandoned. Please Help

I would have thought that the easiest way to find the boat would be to ask the Customs/Coastguard people.

Their task is to track every vessel that may arrive in Australia and given Windigo is going to "arrive" in Australia they may be very interested in finding when and where.

My understanding is that they have long range radar on their aircraft so it may not be that big an ask.
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Old 23-11-2012, 22:24   #54
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Re: Merged- Windigo Abandoned. Please Help

Till ya have LIVED Thru a full blown Typhoon, Hurricane, Theres no way to tell ya the things that go thur your head when ya get caught, and have to make the run around!! Connie and I and the kids had to 2 times in 20 yrs of cruiseing the pacific, once on the west coast of Oregon and California, And once 800 or 900 miles from Oz on our first time there! If you seen the seas in 90 + miles per hour winds with a shore 80 miles away! Ya don't know about fear ! for your wife and kids and even yourself! Ive never forgotten these times and now with much better weather radio and files from our SSB and Modem, we will have a MUCH better chance to stay away from winds of these extremes! At least I hope so lol Im to old for that crap now!!
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Old 24-11-2012, 06:18   #55
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Re: Merged- Windigo Abandoned. Please Help

I predict Windigo will be found. I don't think there are definitive statistics, but when a boat is not obviously foundering and it's abandoned they always seem to turn up--sometimes on the beach or reef.
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Old 24-11-2012, 11:06   #56
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Re: Merged- Windigo Abandoned. Please Help

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkJ View Post
Here is video of the boat after it was abandoned.
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Old 24-11-2012, 20:00   #57
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Re: Merged- Windigo Abandoned. Please Help

Just to be clear; I am not so much criticizing Steve and Tania on their decision to abandon their boat; I wasn't there, I do not know the situation.
It is more a general criticism of the quality of boats that are being chosen for offshore sailing.
How could anyone go offshore on any boat, plastic or steel or whatever, without numerous ways to get water out, electric and manual. If the engine is running, the sea water intake is one hell of a pump! A Y valve on the engine intake is a great emergency item.
I've sailed many boats offshore professionally that I felt were not suitable for offshore sailing, a lot because the owners were not capable or just plain afraid. So they call for a delivery skipper to move the boat; someone who theoretically knows the limitations of the boat and can move her within that boat's limits, safely.
I do not care how good weather forecasting is; you are not going to be able to out run a storm doing 10 or 15+ knots if you are on a crossing of 1000 miles or more. Only an idiot would willingly sail in hurricane (cyclone) season, but sometimes you just get caught. Then you had better have a boat that will not let you down. Too many boats today, that people are taking offshore, are losing their rudders or having other catastrophic failures in less than extreme conditions.
If you are sailing from Newport to Bermuda, for instance, expect gale force winds, in the Gulfstream, that are not forecast. Any squall can have a 70 knot wall of wind in it's leading edge; expect it, and there is no forecasting that! You need to have a boat that can take that squall.
There is a passage in Bowditch, the American Practical Navigator, that pretty much says it all, for me. I do not remember it word for word, but it says something like, "with the arrival of the bar, all navigation ceases, safety of the vessel becomes the only concern" and he's talking about big ships in this case.
Folks, buy a boat that will get you home, no matter what mistakes you make.
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Old 24-11-2012, 20:24   #58
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Re: Merged- Windigo Abandoned. Please Help

Quote:
Originally Posted by capta View Post
How could anyone go offshore on any boat, plastic or steel or whatever, without numerous ways to get water out, electric and manual. If the engine is running, the sea water intake is one hell of a pump! A Y valve on the engine intake is a great emergency item.
.
How does your statement relate to this boat?

Did you see the video?

Did you see in the video after it was abandoned at the side of the ship?

Is there water in it?

Is it down on its lines?

Is it listing?

No it is not. There is no, or very little water in it.

Please look at the video and tell me what damage there is that's caused by lack of manufacture integrity.

Thanks


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Old 24-11-2012, 21:01   #59
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Re: Merged- Windigo Abandoned. Please Help

It is possible to have injuries that, later, prove to be less severe but which at the time are totally debilitating... and there is no way know until after the fact how soon the immediate trauma will be resolved.

I hope they find their boat. First thing I would do is rename her. That is a HELL of a name.. and not in a good way!
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Old 24-11-2012, 21:32   #60
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Re: Merged- Windigo Abandoned. Please Help

Quote:
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Anyone who has sailed offshore knows how infinitely small the chance of running into another boat is, regardless of whether it is being actively sailed or lit at night.
You might think that is the case but I have twice had to dodge to avoid colliding with other sailboats offshore. Once between the Windward Passage and Jamaica in the middle of a moonless, overcast night. The other boat had no lights and if I had not been on watch and paying close attention we would have hit. I just barely saw the white sails of the boat no more than 100 yards dead ahead. Killed the AP and headed up just in time to watch him pass less than a boat length away. Not a soul visible but it was dark so I guess someone could have been sleeping in the cockpit.

Second time was off Delaware Bay in broad daylight. I was headed south and another boat headed more or less southeast. I watched them starting about 2 miles off as our courses converged. I maintained until it was obvious the other vessel was not going to change course. I passed him astern and had a clear view of the empty cockpit. Obviosly no risk since I was again standing watch but if I had been like the skippers of these other two boats this would be a different story.
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