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Old 21-11-2012, 07:54   #16
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Re: Merged- Windigo Abandoned. Please Help

Mystic Gringo... methinks you're on the right trail.

Why abandon a floating boat, which according to the crew, may still be floating?

The planets are not in alignment here unless there is more to meet the eye than the abbreviated posting by Windigo Steve.

Hey Ho.. anyhooo I do hope they end up finding their boat and this thread is not some perverted scam.
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Old 21-11-2012, 08:24   #17
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There was a post made earlier about this at the time it was happening: Tonga Storm.

I guess the injuries were enough to need to abandon the boat.
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Old 21-11-2012, 13:10   #18
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Re: Merged- Windigo Abandoned. Please Help

Posts where expirenced crew, leave a boat running, and head for shore. To rethink what they have done, and posts where someone with no expirence, no nothing, buys an old boat and heads to Bermuta. Life is wonderous, yes?
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Old 21-11-2012, 13:23   #19
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Re: Merged- Windigo Abandoned. Please Help

I'm reposting a post from Mark from the 393 site. Many might remember Mark who also has a 393 and circumnavigated in it. It may answer the questions some seem to have. As to leaving the engine running, if any of you have been rescued at sea, killing the engine might be the last thing you think of as you scramble up the ship's sides.



The two injured people from the damaged yacht Windigo are safely aboard the
cargo ship Chengtu after a rescue this morning.

New Zealander Tania Davies and Australian-based Brit Steve Jones, both have head
injuries, and Mr Jones has a back injury.

They called for help Wednesday night after their yacht, the 12 metre Windigo,
rolled in 10 metre seas.

The Rescue Coordination Centre says a freighter, which was diverted to the
yacht's position, and another vessel, Adventure Bound, have arrived and are
beside the Windigo.

Heaving lines were lowered from the cargo vessel to the yacht and the pair were
pulled aboard.


That vessel is now heading south to meet up with the HMNZS Otago.

Senior Search and Rescue Officer Keith Allen says the pair and their families
are relieved to finally be safe.

"The male has a reasonable cut to his forehead, and around his left eye,
bruising to the right eye, but his back problem is not as serious as first
thought and he's certainly able to walk. And the lady on board has a good bump
to her sore head, but she's otherwise in good spirits."

Keith Allen says the damaged vessel has been left to float and may sink, or wash
up somewhere in months to come.

An Air Force Orion was keeping an eye on the boat overnight until a commercial
container vessel arrived.

Search and Rescue Officer Kevin Banaghan earlier said the weather was too rough
to make a transfer.

"Wind's at 50 knots, and sea's up at 10 metres. Now the forecast is for the seas
to drop down to two metres, and the wind to reduce to 20 knots. So we're hoping
at some point today we can actually effect a transfer from the yacht to the
container vessel."

But the pair have now been safely rescued.

Mr Banaghan says the vessel has lost its rudder and the windows and potholes
have smashed in.
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Old 21-11-2012, 14:37   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryMayo
Posts where expirenced crew, leave a boat running, and head for shore. To rethink what they have done, and posts where someone with no expirence, no nothing, buys an old boat and heads to Bermuta. Life is wonderous, yes?
Both called the coast guard...
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Old 22-11-2012, 22:41   #21
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Re: Merged- Windigo Abandoned. Please Help

I just don't get it.
A 40' sailing boat that can't take a knockdown in 50 knots of wind, and 30' seas? Why would anyone sail a boat that fragile across an ocean? In one link I followed from this thread, someone else had sailed the same boat around the world. Did that person just get lucky? Or is the quality that different on boats of the same series?
Are all these sailors relying on being saved by someone if their luck runs out? Do any of these sailors really think they have the right to ask someone else to risk their lives to rescue them (usually for free), when they have chosen to go out there in sub-quality boats, lacking the experience and knowledge necessary to cross an ocean safely, no matter WHAT conditions they may encounter?
Hasn't anyone ever heard of jury rigs and repairs at sea? Is no one going to take responsibility for their own actions?
I just don't get it.
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Old 22-11-2012, 23:10   #22
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Re: Merged- Windigo Abandoned. Please Help

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Originally Posted by capta View Post
I just don't get it.
A 40' sailing boat that can't take a knockdown in 50 knots of wind, and 30' seas? Why would anyone sail a boat that fragile across an ocean? In one link I followed from this thread, someone else had sailed the same boat around the world. Did that person just get lucky? Or is the quality that different on boats of the same series?
Are all these sailors relying on being saved by someone if their luck runs out? Do any of these sailors really think they have the right to ask someone else to risk their lives to rescue them (usually for free), when they have chosen to go out there in sub-quality boats, lacking the experience and knowledge necessary to cross an ocean safely, no matter WHAT conditions they may encounter?
Hasn't anyone ever heard of jury rigs and repairs at sea? Is no one going to take responsibility for their own actions?
I just don't get it.
And hopefully you'll never have to.

C'mon folks, a little more compassion and a lot less judgement would be the right thing to do here.

Tania & Steve, I hope you both heal quickly and are able to recover your boat.

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Old 22-11-2012, 23:17   #23
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Re: Merged- Windigo Abandoned. Please Help

I was wondering the same thing. How can you have a charter business with no insurance?
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Old 23-11-2012, 00:08   #24
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Re: Merged- Windigo Abandoned. Please Help

All this talk of rescue costs. I can't be 100% certain, but I'm pretty sure that unless the rescue is conducted by a voluntary rescue organisation, the difference in costs between performing a rescue and not performing a rescue aren't that spectacular. Think about it - the crews are still paid, the equipment is still an expense and if the teams were all sitting around on their butts doing nothing for too long they'd have to go out and perform rescue drills anyway.

As an example, I drive past an airport fire station every day. Nearby they have a fake plane made out of steel that they regularly ignite so that they can practice their stuff. In their case, fighting a real aircraft fire would actually be less expensive because they wouldn't have to supply the fuel for the flames!

And I know that if I were a member of a rescue organisation, I'd be champing at the bit to get involved in rescues like this as at the end of the day that is what it is all about.

As for insurance, they probably lost the cover once they were xxx nautical miles offshore
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Old 23-11-2012, 00:11   #25
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Re: Merged- Windigo Abandoned. Please Help

terminalcitygrl
Oh, but I have!
And we never called for help, even when the boat had feet of water over the floorboards; we bailed with buckets (3 of us) and manual pumps for hours, non-stop. We nailed floorboards over the companionway that had it's hatch torn off. But the boat could take it; capsized 3 times and lost a hatch, some stanchions, handrails, everything tied down on deck, etc. Didn't lose the rudder or the rig either. And that boat was built in the USA in 1909! But hey, that was a measly hurricane, not a big 50 knot blow. Pretty much the same area, though.
I do not make these "rude" comments lightly, I speak from experience and observation. If just one person chooses a safer, better built vessel for their dream adventure, because of one of my posts, then I can take all the abuse that you all want to heap on me.
Do get back to me when you've hand steered for 22 hours straight in an Atlantic storm (that killed 22 people on multiple boats). Just the whitewater on those waves was over 30 feet. It was pretty easy to judge as I had a 37 footer completely in the whitewater, time and time again.
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Old 23-11-2012, 04:14   #26
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Re: Look Out for Windigo

Quote:
Originally Posted by S/V Alchemy View Post
While I'm sure there are cruisers who might take this boat under tow or even put a crew on it to try and sail it into an anchorage, doesn't this sort of thing fall under the laws of salvage?

If one cruiser salvages another cruiser's abandoned boat, do the usual salvage practices apply?

I do not imply greed or taking advantage of another's loss here, but if their boat is damaged, possibly half-full of water and hundreds of miles from a well-serviced harbour, "finding it" would be a non-trivial service worthy of compensation.

Having said that, if we found and could identify an abandoned yacht, I would attempt to reach the owners via the closest authorities, but unless I found it bobbing off an easily entered harbour in fine weather, my instinct would be to open the seacocks as a dead 40 footer is a serious hazard to navigation.

Am I wrong here?
The usual Salvage practices apply if the "rescuer" wants it to. Not compulsory though. (whether they are succesful in the claim and how much they get is a seperate matter).

I certainly agree it would not be a trivial matter to recover that boat, so IMO is worth recompense. If I stumbled accross an abandoned boat I would probably give it a go (how hard I tried would depend on circumstances).....if the boat was insured I would certainly put in a salvage claim.

In these circumstances (with the boat uninsured) I would look to do a deal with the owner - might settle for 5k (lots of beer money ), might want more - but that decision largely dependent on attitude of the Owner . In any event, given that the boat is open then my guess is she would be pretty worthless by now (a couple of tons of water sloshing around inside is going to do a lot of damage, and will ultimately lead to her breaking up - as well as simply the damage from being wet!).

Would I sink her? Not sure, if I thought she was unsaveable by someone else (from condition / location) then I might do (after "rescuing" anything I could?!). But not neccessarily as the odds of someone bumping into her would be slim to none - and then only a problem if the boat doing the hitting was small and someone was not looking out of the window .
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Old 23-11-2012, 04:41   #27
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Re: Merged- Windigo Abandoned. Please Help

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Hasn't anyone ever heard of jury rigs and repairs at sea? Is no one going to take responsibility for their own actions?
I just don't get it.
Take both crew having been unconscious and having head injuries and one with a back injury out of the equation then they may well have repaired and carried on.
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Old 23-11-2012, 04:42   #28
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Re: Merged- Windigo Abandoned. Please Help

DOJ: Thanks for your thoughts. It's clear everything would be contingent on circumstances in such a situation. I'm guessing they didn't have an EPIRB or it's gone missing or dead...otherwise they would know fairly accurately where their boat is.

"Worthless" is relative to whether or not this is their only home, and how skilled the owners are, plus whatever resources they have. I've seen dire boats with scorch marks and bat guano be brought back to factory condition, but that was by a millwright who had a friendly deal with a boatyard and some sort of independent wealth.

I disagree with "not sinking" for a few reasons. If a boat was visibly dismasted and had two feet of water in it and no means short of bucket brigade to clear it, or had no rudder or portlights staved in, it's a dangerous place. A well-equipped yacht has perhaps hundreds of litres of fuel and a variety of paints, solvents, lubricants and other chemical compounds aboard. Should it break up on a reef or a beach, it could kill off several square kilometres of habitat. Cutting the hoses in deep water will send it to the bottom and an opportunity to disperse its toxins in a more diluted fashion.

If I had the opportunity to contact a coast guard of a nearby nation, I would, but sometimes distance and other factors wouldn't allow them to reach an adrift vessel, or to communicate with me.

Again, it would be my last option, and yes, if the boat did not seem to be on the verge of sinking, I would root through the nav table (some boats don't have them anymore) to retrieve passports, photos and other lightweight and obviously personal effects in the hope of giving them to the owners, assuming they weren't themselves fish food.

I have heard of boats being found abandoned in remarkably good condition and found with a few buckets of rainwater in the bilges. That would be an entirely different situation. But generally, I would rather see a battered hulk sunk at sea than to resemble an awash 10 tonne container, or as a leaking wreck fouling some pristine lagoon.
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Old 23-11-2012, 04:43   #29
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Re: Merged- Windigo Abandoned. Please Help

Quote:
Originally Posted by capta View Post
I just don't get it.
A 40' sailing boat that can't take a knockdown in 50 knots of wind, and 30' seas? Why would anyone sail a boat that fragile across an ocean?
When last seen the boat was still floating, so the boat can take it. However, people are a bit more fragile and tend to give up first, everyone has a limit.

I agree with terminalcitygrl, they have just lost their yacht which was probably their home and it's not insured. Some compasion would be appropriate.


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Old 23-11-2012, 06:44   #30
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Take both crew having been unconscious and having head injuries and one with a back injury out of the equation then they may well have repaired and carried on.
I haven't read anywhere that they were knocked unconscious at any point, but I have read that their injuries were mild. Of course, we won't really know till they tell us differently.

If the rigging and sails were in excellent condition after the event... as they state... then the possible broken rudder is the only issue. Not a small issue, but I wonder if it's the rudder that's broken, or the steering mechanism... and if an emergency tiller would have worked.

Not that you'd want to sail in ridiculous conditions on an emergency tiller... but it will give you enough control to heave-to, and rest and repair till the storm passes.

I'll admit that I'm out of my league here, having never been in that situation... but I find value in the theoretical discussion as it educates me on what I should attempt in similar circumstances.
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