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Old 15-03-2013, 23:42   #241
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Re: Merged- Windigo Abandoned. Please Help

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Originally Posted by nimblemotors View Post
You can't have it both ways. If you claim they still own it, then plundering it is illegal. Maybe this particular case the owners ARE (or WERE) claiming they did not abandon it. I'm not a lawyer, but I would GET ONE if I were this couple.

ABANDONMENT. In maritime contracts in the civil law, principals are generally held indefinitely responsible for the obligations which their agents have contracted relative to the concern of their commission but with regard to ship owners there is remarkable peculiarity; they are bound by the contract of the master only to the amount of their interest in the ship, and can be discharged from their responsibility by abandoning the ship and freight. Poth. Chartes part. s. 2, art. 3, Sec. 51; Ord. de la Mar. des proprietaires, art. 2; Code de Com. 1. 2, t. 2, art. 216.
You can split hairs all you want and play a game of symantics if it's enjoyable to you...none of that changes the facts: You step off a boat in the ocean and it's fair game, you can't act surprised when someone helps themselves to it or its contents. That doesn't mean you're not responable for the results of your actions...if it washes up somewhere the principals in charge will expect you to deal with it.

If some guy says "Hey I found your boat floating in the ocean and that's a really nice chart plotter I got...thanks " there will be no prosecution...period.

And when the OZ gov't pays to remove the hulk, they WILL rightfully expect to be paid. And any court I'm sure will agree. Now being that the couple is broke, I'd be surprised if they ever actually pay, but that's not the same as they SHOULD! In the US they would not be imprisoned, and I'm fairly sure they won't be in OZ either, but that's just my thoughts.
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Old 16-03-2013, 00:06   #242
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Re: Merged- Windigo Abandoned. Please Help

Some interesting points in

December 2012 | Lin & Larry Pardey: Newsletters & Cruising Tips

" According to other cruisers, they were not happy with the boat as it was giving them a lot of gear problems and the hull and deck were not holding up well. They were quoted in the news as saying, “The boat is definitely not up to the rigors of making ocean passages.” They had already decided, while in Bora Bora, that they wanted to sell it as soon as they arrived in New Zealand. "

Why would a boat only six years old be that bad?

and "... television footage showing the Windigo motoring in a relatively smooth sea, mast standing, sails furled neatly, waterline clearly showing, small outboard still attached to the stern rail and crew looking relatively fit."

Did the crew of Windigo wind up in New Zealand (her home and their intended destination), and if so, how difficult would doing something about a boat in NSW have been for them?
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Old 16-03-2013, 00:08   #243
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Re: Merged- Windigo Abandoned. Please Help

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Originally Posted by nimblemotors View Post
ABANDONMENT. In maritime contracts in the civil law, principals are generally held indefinitely responsible for the obligations which their agents have contracted relative to the concern of their commission but with regard to ship owners there is remarkable peculiarity; they are bound by the contract of the master only to the amount of their interest in the ship, and can be discharged from their responsibility by abandoning the ship and freight. Poth. Chartes part. s. 2, art. 3, Sec. 51; Ord. de la Mar. des proprietaires, art. 2; Code de Com. 1. 2, t. 2, art. 216.
You are correct, but that applies primarily to insurance claims from Ship owner and charterers relating to flotsam and jetsom..etc.
It does not apply to MARPOL laws of pollutionÖ otherwise BP would be laughing at having abandoned their oil rig off the US Gulf coast.

I doubt if the coupled carried MARPOL Insurance.
Personally I think getting lawyers involved would be a mistake as this would make it higher profile and president setting.

Couples best bet is to ask Australian authorities how they can help clean up their mess... given that they are broke.

Attitude goes a long way in Australia
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Old 16-03-2013, 00:50   #244
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Re: Merged- Windigo Abandoned. Please Help

I couldn't have said it any better than Pelagic.

"Personally I think getting lawyers involved would be a mistake as this would make it higher profile and president setting.

Couples best bet is to ask Australian authorities how they can help clean up their mess... given that they are broke.

In my view, they've blundered by not having told the authorities they are strapped but would do everything within their power to get the job done.

"Attitude goes a long way in Australia".

Resitance, obstinancy and making excuses will get you in hot water every time.

Getting lawyers involved could easily end up costing nearly as much as disposing of the boat, and in the end do nothing to relieve them of the responsibility and cost.

armido
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Old 16-03-2013, 02:50   #245
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To all of you clowns that think its fine to chop a lump of fibreglass and burn it in such a pristine untouched environment, not in my backyard thank you!
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Old 16-03-2013, 06:01   #246
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Re: Merged- Windigo Abandoned. Please Help

I'm new to this site and although I am not a mariner I'm saddened by your loss. I'm struggling to understand though why you would abandon a boat that is still afloat.Regardless of her state after a rollover if she is afloat you probably should have stayed with her (onboard), or at least stayed within sight or somehow track it via GPS or EPERB maybe. (if this was possible).The only reason a sailor would abandon their craft is if a sinking was imminent, they were convinced this was the only possible outcome at the time or the craft remained capsized after the rollover. I believe the same rule applies in any remote area life or death situation, such as open ocean or inland desert. Always stay with you vehicle. I think most of the readers on this forum would be interested in an accurate account of what happened that led you to abandon your yacht.
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Old 16-03-2013, 06:13   #247
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Re: Merged- Windigo Abandoned. Please Help

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Originally Posted by surfingminniwinni View Post
To all of you clowns that think its fine to chop a lump of fibreglass and burn it in such a pristine untouched environment, not in my backyard thank you!
I can understand the sentiment - but it is not presently "pristine and untouched".....it has a wrecked blob of fibreglass on it .

Sometimes in life the answer is less than ideal.......In any event my gut says that chainsaw approach in situ probably has less overall impact on the environment than a full scale "rescue" mission and disposal elsewhere.....even though the price is to the immediate locale (rather than spread around elsewhere from resources used as much as disposal of the boat - but out of sight and out of mind has attractions I guess even for the ecoists).
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Old 16-03-2013, 06:26   #248
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pirate Re: Merged- Windigo Abandoned. Please Help

Like a colonoscopy, it really doesn't hurt and you feel much better.

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Old 16-03-2013, 06:48   #249
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Re: Merged- Windigo Abandoned. Please Help

Maybe, just maybe, the time has come when international law should require insurance for all boaters venturing offshore. Given the physical and environmental damage that even a small sailboat can cause, and given the risk and expense of offshore rescues, mandatory insurance would serve 2 functions: making sure each vessel was suited to the task, kept in good condition, had proper safety equipment onboard, and the skipper qualified to undertake the task, and #2, money to cover things like the loss of Windigo, and the cost of her salvage.
Now I hate, as much as the next guy, adding any layers of red-tape and regulation to one of the last refuges of the free spirit, but sea going vessels were the reason insurance was invented.
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Old 16-03-2013, 06:57   #250
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Re: Merged- Windigo Abandoned. Please Help

No... profit was the reason Insurance was invented
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Old 16-03-2013, 07:05   #251
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Re: Merged- Windigo Abandoned. Please Help

I have to agree with MARKJ here, the yacht looked in remarkably good condition considering what the crew "said" they were subjected to. They were rescued in near flat seas so it begs the question...why abandon it and not attempt repairs on the fly?. Unless they simply had enough of it (if it were in bad condition when purchased-maybe thats why there was no insurance?) and were happy to let it drift with the idea that it would eventually sink. This whole situation defies belief! Tania certainly looked "happy" when she disembarked the rescue ship. I would feel sick to my stomach if it were me in that situation. I will read more posts but here on page 3 tania or shane havn't offered an explanation yet!
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Old 16-03-2013, 07:12   #252
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pirate Re: Merged- Windigo Abandoned. Please Help

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Maybe, just maybe, the time has come when international law should require insurance for all boaters venturing offshore. Given the physical and environmental damage that even a small sailboat can cause, and given the risk and expense of offshore rescues, mandatory insurance would serve 2 functions: making sure each vessel was suited to the task, kept in good condition, had proper safety equipment onboard, and the skipper qualified to undertake the task, and #2, money to cover things like the loss of Windigo, and the cost of her salvage.
Now I hate, as much as the next guy, adding any layers of red-tape and regulation to one of the last refuges of the free spirit, but sea going vessels were the reason insurance was invented.
Brave New World! If WE can't decide what a bluewater boat is, how could a bunch of insurance administrators? That would be like financial guys telling doctors what they could and couldn't do!

Oh wait ...
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Old 16-03-2013, 07:20   #253
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Re: Merged- Windigo Abandoned. Please Help

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Maybe, just maybe, the time has come when international law should require insurance for all boaters venturing offshore. etc..
Here we go.. I'll register my boat in Liberia or some such if this ever comes to pass.
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Old 16-03-2013, 07:23   #254
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Re: Merged- Windigo Abandoned. Please Help

Brave new world? Correct me if I'm wrong, but insurance is currently available as an option for blue water boats, and I understand insurance companies already consider the condition of the vessel and qualifications of the skipper. No need to re-invent the wheel here, just consider the benefits of requiring insurance, rather than repeatedly rescuing poorly qualified sailors, or having taxpayers funding salvage and cleanup costs. as stated, I'm aware of the possible pitfalls in doing so, and loathe intruding into one of the few places left on earth where freedom and independence are hallmarks of the lifestyle, but it may be that insurance requirments will be legislated anyway.
Cheers,
David
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Old 16-03-2013, 07:23   #255
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Here we go.. I'll register my boat in Liberia or some such if this ever comes to pass.

Panama is nice this time of year.
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