Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 05-01-2011, 21:59   #46
cat herder, extreme blacksheep
 
zeehag's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: furycame alley , tropics, mexico for now
Boat: 1976 FORMOSA yankee clipper 41
Posts: 17,772
Images: 56
Send a message via Yahoo to zeehag Send a message via Skype™ to zeehag
cutlass bearing is just inside the shaft log on the opposing end from this on the shaft--just inside the hull in a bolted in shaft log. has been deemed ok and tested ok, by a diver....spozedly. lol.
it was suggested i place EVERYTHING in the boat into the bow to raise the stern some...
__________________

zeehag is offline  
Old 05-01-2011, 22:26   #47
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Port Ludlow Wa
Boat: Makela,Ingrid38,Idora
Posts: 1,974
Unhappy Bad JuJu

Zee,

You should let us help you get lifted out of the water. Several reasons

1- We like you and you would do it for us.
2- We don't want to see the boat lost at sea with you on it.
3- It's a cool boat.

There appears to be considerable corrosion going on and quite a few parts and fasteners that will be difficult to remove. If you can get all the parts together you could be out and back in in a few days. Please consider it.

If quite a few of us chip in the cost will be small per person.
If you persist and actually do it in the water and you pull it off. I will personally mail you a bottle of Rum but it looks like a yard job to make it safe

Todd
__________________

__________________
IdoraKeeper is offline  
Old 05-01-2011, 22:48   #48
Registered User
 
Bluefuss's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: B.C. Canada / San Carlos, Sonora
Boat: Tayana 37
Posts: 168
I'm with Idorakeeper Zee, i know i'll get it back in fresh baked bread someday.
__________________
When we remember we are all mad, the mysteries disappear and life stands explained.
Mark Twain
Bluefuss is offline  
Old 06-01-2011, 01:16   #49
cruiser

Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,129
ok, if not for zee, can someone tell me about how much this repair would cost, just in case it happens to me? I am guessing that a haul out and back will be about $500?

and maybe a day labor? maybe professional at about $50+ / hour?

Plus parts?


Maybe $1200-1500???

If so, then by my estimate, maybe we can get about 10-15 people to chip in...

I will offer an equal share in the repair...

if you dont have paypal or a bank, then maybe the dock or whomever does the work and haul out does... I would be glad to contact them to make payment arrangments over the phone with them...

If folks want, they can do the same, or we can have one person collect the money and pay them direct...

This isnt a lot of money, (assuming my wild ass guesstimate is too wild) (and no disrespect to those that do think this is a lot, and please know, that I felt that way for a long LONG time too.)

ZEE please make this happen... when dealing with something that isnt quite clear and basically snap in, I would strongly encourage you to make the boat dry before breaking that seal... you may not havee all the right parts, and or need more time, and if you rely on the bilge pump, you maybe surprised in a severely bad way...

I am sure you will or have paid it forward in the past???? and I know people have helped me out in the past as well...

And if you were to try to replace the seal while wet, and it didnt go well, I am sure we would want to help you that way also... and i hope you understand it is better to do it former, not the latter...
__________________
Bergovoy is offline  
Old 06-01-2011, 01:52   #50
cat herder, extreme blacksheep
 
zeehag's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: furycame alley , tropics, mexico for now
Boat: 1976 FORMOSA yankee clipper 41
Posts: 17,772
Images: 56
Send a message via Yahoo to zeehag Send a message via Skype™ to zeehag
have emailed the pix to my chandler..we see what he says in am....
how do ye set up paypal--i had once but would not let me in again--i forgot my name and password-i could not retrieve it for whatever reason-- - so i went away from it--had 20 dollars in it.. if i HAVE t use a yard,i will try to use knight and carver(national city) for proximity--i CAN get there before bilge pump is overcome.
so, first thing i will do is see what chris frost(downwind marine-parts house) has to say bout my part... then we go from there--i am tired now--has been a stressful day--at least the sun was shining. wasnt warm, but was sunny.

trust me-this skeerededs me to deeth..... cannot get this out of my mined. i put it off as long as i can--procrastination does nothing good for boats and the bits that keep them together and floating. but the sailing was awesome!!!

she IS a cool boat--i love her, even tho she isnt the one i originally WANTED-- that one had more carved wood inside--more dragons and coool stufff.....mine is plain wrap but fine! this is the biggest baddest thing wrong with her--i got lucky in her purchase.

i like you guys, too--is why i torture ye with my presence..LOL

bill-- a cal is a lot like my ericson in some ways--needs a tiny monkey to be able to get into the teensy space and hanging upside down. 5 yrs ago the sling was 70 dollars per hour for use by pacwest marine...had dripless stuffing box installed when i had my engine overhauled. that took 11/2 hours in sling so it was 70/hr dollars for sling, 85 /hour for mechanic....plus the yanmar overhaul=3865. i dont know how much more it would have been then if i hadnt had boat in with pacwest marine--they gave me a deal on that sling.
zeehag is offline  
Old 06-01-2011, 07:47   #51
Registered User
 
Tia Bu's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: South Carolina
Boat: 40' Jeanneau
Posts: 454
O.k. I think I understand the problem from the photos and your description. The housing of the stuffing box appears to be corroded and cracked. So the stuffing box must be replaced with another stuffing box or a (newer technology) dripless shaft seal.

The parts cost is not going to be that much. Jamestown Distributors, for example, carries replacement stuffing boxes. Depending on the shaft size, it looks like the cost may be a bit under $100. Lasdrop Seals makes the most economical dripless shaft seal I've seen (there seem to be at least three manufacturers), and they were very helpful to me over the phone when I had my problems. Total equipment cost looks to be below $200 in that case.

The main expense is going to be time. The trouble is, to find out what size the threaded stern tube is INSIDE the old stuffing box, you're going to have to undo the bolts holding the old stuffing box housing and then twist the old stuffing box off far enough to get a caliper around the threaded stern tube to measure it. And you're going to have to have this measurement so you can order the replacement part. Then you're going to have to wait for the replacement part to arrive.

You could conceivably do this in the water, but if that old stuffing box disintegrates when you start turning it, then you're going to have to haul the boat, quickly.

To install the new stuffing box or dripless seal, you're going to have to pull the shaft out of the engine coupling (so you can slide the box or seal over the shaft). This is usually the toughest part of the job on an old boat. The usual recommendation is to disconnect the coupling, insert a spacer (like a 9/16" socket) at the end of the shaft, then retighten the coupling bolts gradually until you press the shaft out of the coupling. Installation instructions for any of the dripless shaft seals will show you how to do this.

You can do all this yourself. (It is even conceivable to do it in the water, with great care, a little help, and some luck.) It will just take time and sweat. If you pay someone else to do it, it could end up costing a lot, because it might take several hours (or a couple of days) to get all this old rusty stuff apart.

Big benefit of doing it yourself: your fear will be GONE! You will understand it all and how to repair it in an emergency.

The main expense will be hauling the boat (if you have to), and on-the-dry storage charges while you do the work.

My suggestion: search on dripless shaft seals and stuffing boxes. Read everything you can- especially installation instructions. Call the manufacturers. Talk to them and ask them to help you think through the problem. THEN--- decide whether to haul and start the work. This could save you hundreds and hundreds of dollars.

If anyone else can see where I've given mistaken information above (a distinct possibility ), please chime in! I hope this is of some help.

Oh, and to respond to a previous poster on the total cost to have a yard do this repair: a yard estimated $1000-$1200 in my case for a 30' boat- unless we ran into problems.

I don't care if you're a chick-- my bet is you can fix this!

All the best,
__________________
Tia Bu is offline  
Old 06-01-2011, 08:02   #52
Registered User
 
Tia Bu's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: South Carolina
Boat: 40' Jeanneau
Posts: 454
By the way, if you were at sea when this problem surfaced, you would probably fix it with toilet wax and duct tape until you got to the other side of the ocean. Just to keep it in perspective. From the photos, it appears you've already effected half that repair.

I'm not saying you shouldn't fix it the right way.
__________________
Tia Bu is offline  
Old 06-01-2011, 08:19   #53
Senior Cruiser
 
tartansail's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Tiverton, RI, USA
Boat: ex-Tartan 40
Posts: 614
Images: 1
One topic I didn't see raised was managing to pull the prop shaft out sufficiently given the aperture on these boats. Zee, is this what your underbody looks like?
View Boat Photos - YachtWorld.com (Look at pics 39 or 40)

If so, I'm not sure how you'll be able to get the prop to clear the rudder. If the shaft isn't removed, how do you replace that stern tube given the bulkhead?

I'm with the "Haul and we'll help" crowd. Too many uncertainties to put a hole in the boat while disabling the engine.
__________________
- David
S/V Sapphire Tartan 40 #71

tartansail is offline  
Old 06-01-2011, 09:04   #54
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 741
Quote:
Originally Posted by IdoraKeeper View Post
Zee,

You should let us help you get lifted out of the water. Several reasons

1- We like you and you would do it for us.
2- We don't want to see the boat lost at sea with you on it.
3- It's a cool boat.

There appears to be considerable corrosion going on and quite a few parts and fasteners that will be difficult to remove. If you can get all the parts together you could be out and back in in a few days. Please consider it.

If quite a few of us chip in the cost will be small per person.
If you persist and actually do it in the water and you pull it off. I will personally mail you a bottle of Rum but it looks like a yard job to make it safe

Todd
I'm lined up with Idorakeeper.
__________________
Hannah on 'Rita T' is offline  
Old 06-01-2011, 09:27   #55
Registered User
 
Tia Bu's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: South Carolina
Boat: 40' Jeanneau
Posts: 454
Quote:
Originally Posted by tartansail View Post
One topic I didn't see raised was managing to pull the prop shaft out sufficiently given the aperture on these boats. Zee, is this what your underbody looks like?
View Boat Photos - YachtWorld.com (Look at pics 39 or 40)

If so, I'm not sure how you'll be able to get the prop to clear the rudder. If the shaft isn't removed, how do you replace that stern tube given the bulkhead?

I'm with the "Haul and we'll help" crowd. Too many uncertainties to put a hole in the boat while disabling the engine.

Good thought. If you do it in the water, add $100 for a diver to pull the prop off. The shaft probably is slightly angled to clear the rudder once the prop is off. Doing the whole thing out of the water would be easier and possibly less stressful.
__________________
Tia Bu is offline  
Old 06-01-2011, 10:32   #56
Registered User
 
Tia Bu's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: South Carolina
Boat: 40' Jeanneau
Posts: 454
All right, I'm going to shut up about this and get back to work

But... the more I think about it from your description: you could measure the outside diameter of the fiberglass tube running between the hull and that beam the stuffing box mounts on. Then you could buy a dripless shaft seal that fits over that tube.

Since the whole thing is under the dinette and easily accessible: just cut away the beam and cut the fiberglass tube off a few inches from the hull. And then discard the beam, old stuffing box, and excess fiberglass tube, and replace the whole mess with a new dripless shaft seal.

You could do this repair in the water with support from a diver, I bet.
__________________
Tia Bu is offline  
Old 06-01-2011, 10:42   #57
cat herder, extreme blacksheep
 
zeehag's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: furycame alley , tropics, mexico for now
Boat: 1976 FORMOSA yankee clipper 41
Posts: 17,772
Images: 56
Send a message via Yahoo to zeehag Send a message via Skype™ to zeehag
these have 4 inchees clearance between prop and rudder, which seems like enough space. we have bolt in shaftlog/stern tubes, which are quite long, as they go from opening at prop to the beam seen in pic--the ugly white thing is that. bolts to beam. the rest is confusing and making me crazy---er crazier than i already am.>LOL--i have 2 boats--i must be nutz...
i am kinda leaning toward the slinging her thing-- the travellift is a huge one so is pricey-- they quoted me 410 out 410 in an d 100 / hr for labor. ouchies-- i didnt ask what the additional would be for covering shaft log and cutlass bearing--testing bearing in water was a good to go test-- didnt fail.... we go for packing gland and make for mazatlan--dock with friends and celebrate life and living on the sea..LOL(more like celebration of survival!!)
zeehag is offline  
Old 06-01-2011, 11:50   #58
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Nevada City. CA
Boat: Sceptre 41
Posts: 3,745
Images: 9
Zee:
I think you need to line up all the parts prior to pulling the boat. Seems silly to pull the boat and sit and wait for the parts to come. That is the problem. If the shaft log is metal and screws into the bearing you are going to have a hard time getting the correct thread size w/o taking it apart. Also if the shaft log is steel other problems could arise. Like replacing the stuffing box and then getting a leak in the shaft log.
__________________
Fair Winds,

Charlie

Between us there was, as I have already said somewhere, the bond of the sea. Besides holding our hearts together through long periods of separation, it had the effect of making us tolerant of each other's yarns -- and even convictions. Heart of Darkness
Joseph Conrad
Charlie is offline  
Old 06-01-2011, 11:56   #59
cat herder, extreme blacksheep
 
zeehag's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: furycame alley , tropics, mexico for now
Boat: 1976 FORMOSA yankee clipper 41
Posts: 17,772
Images: 56
Send a message via Yahoo to zeehag Send a message via Skype™ to zeehag
working on that aspect of this-- trying to learn what part i really need and how to do this without losing life and limb and wetting my blasted pillow. lol i am not a happy kat with wet pillows.
is a big deal for me-- and i am trying to do this as realistically as possible. kinda like sailing thru lightning-- and i am skeereded to death of that stuff, too, but i did it!!!! a LOT last year in the gulf.
am awaiting callback as to type and make of packing gland, then onward and upward.
zeehag is offline  
Old 06-01-2011, 12:17   #60
cruiser

Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,129
from what i read, it is hard to select the correct seal without pulling the old one first... so, unless you know what the old seal was from the last time you replaced it, you are kinda stuck in the process of pulling her out, removing the old / bad parts, cleaning up teh area and parts that are going to be reused and verifying the sizes/dimensions of the parts you need and cross your fingers hoping those parts are readily available.

the cost estimate seems close to my wild ass guess, except I was low on the cost of removal/replacemnt of teh boat, and low on my hourly wage, but high on the amount of time needed for the actual repair...

hopefully it is still within the or close to the $1500



as for setting up paypal, it is fairly simple, well it ws for me... if you remember your old email address you should be able to get the password reset by contacting the support/help desk or maybe there is a button for lost or forgotten passwords...

if you lost or forgot your email, then, I am not sure if you can get the account back or not.. contact paypal support...

if you have a debit/credit card from your bank, you should be able to be up and running within a day or so... if you dont, then it might take a few weeks as you will need to mail in a check and for them to actually verify your bank account manually...


but, like i offered before, maybe we can make payment direct to the mechanic or yard that is doing the work? and maybe you can ask them to let you do as much grunt work as possible so you can minimize the cost and learn and get hands on experience too...
__________________

__________________
Bergovoy is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
German Coast Guard Mayday Video jim_thomsen Off Topic Forum 9 09-11-2009 08:08
Mayday yona The Sailor's Confessional 24 27-11-2007 12:08
German Mayday Video Alan Wheeler Fishing, Recreation & Fun 21 24-02-2006 09:52
Mayday off coast of Mexico Talbot Multihull Sailboats 17 23-01-2006 22:35
Mayday - Help Me ... GordMay Forum Tech Support & Site Help 8 12-07-2005 12:48



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 17:01.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.