Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 19-02-2015, 13:27   #31
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Sydney
Boat: Folkboat
Posts: 3
Re: Max length = 26 feet

Not sure if they are readily available where you are, but have you considered either a Folkboat or a Contessa 26?
Folkboats sail very well and look fantastic (if looks are important for you). I haven't been on a contessa but I've heard good things about them, and being based of the Folkies, they should perform quite similar.


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum
__________________

__________________
Runeboat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-02-2015, 14:15   #32
Registered User
 
Steady Hand's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Crewing All of 2017 Available Globally
Boat: OPB = Crewing in 2017
Posts: 4,851
Re: Max length = 26 feet

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ishmael View Post
There are certainly lots of boats out there that will "do". I guess my main question is whether the Nonsuch would hinder my desire to become a better sailor if I get a bigger boat - that probably will not be a catboat - at some point in the future. It's got the room/features I'd WANT, within the limits of my mooring permit, but will it give me the real sailing experience I'd need - as a stepping stone to a larger boat if/when my number comes up for a bigger mooring permit. I'm not really into racing (per se), but I'd like to know how to fly a spinnaker etc.. Should I just save that for the "next" boat (if and when that time comes)?
Howdy!

I read your question and my answer is offered in a friendly tone of voice.

I think "flying a spinnaker" is something good to know, but seldom done by a single hander (unless skilled as a sailor) or only in benign conditions, and seldom done by most people who are NOT in a race and usually only done with adequate crew to fly it and take it down safely. So, it is one of those "nice to know" things that I don't consider essential for good cruising or average sailing or having fun on a boat for casual sails with friends etc.

Of course this is just one person's opinion and there are "small crew" options such as asymmetrical sails and socks etc.

My main point is that learning how to sail with a spinnaker is something you can learn on another boat (even as crew), without needing to have it on your 26 foot boat.

The Nonsuch catboat would offer you simplicity of rig, good sailing (per the comments from owners above), and with a triple reef rigged mainsail, you can adapt to different wind conditions. For a downwind leg, just let that big sail out!

Put another way, in your situation (limited by 26 feet) IF you want to have a roomy boat for spending the weekend on, then the Nonsuch would be fun, roomy, comfortable, etc. I would not consider the lack of a foresail or spinnaker to be any great loss.
__________________

__________________
Ahoy All Sailors! Need experienced crew for a passage or delivery in Atlantic, Pacific, Caribbean, Med, PNW, ICW, coastal or across an ocean anytime in 2017? I am available on 24hr notice. See my CF Profile "About Me" page for details. Happy to lend a hand!
Steady Hand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-02-2015, 14:51   #33
Registered User
 
Steady Hand's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Crewing All of 2017 Available Globally
Boat: OPB = Crewing in 2017
Posts: 4,851
Re: Max length = 26 feet

Quote:
Originally Posted by Runeboat View Post
Not sure if they are readily available where you are, but have you considered either a Folkboat or a Contessa 26?
Folkboats sail very well and look fantastic (if looks are important for you). I haven't been on a contessa but I've heard good things about them, and being based of the Folkies, they should perform quite similar.


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum
I like the Classic Folkboat because it has such classic styling. They can be pretty in varnished wood or paint.

But when I sailed on one in San Francisco Bay, I was not comfortable (in the cockpit or on the rail or in the low cabin). As I recall the low cabin was cramped (tight, low headroom). And I recall a rather wet ride too with narrow side decks. I am 6' tall, so perhaps other smaller sailors would fit better. I would only want one as a day-sail boat, and if looking for a boat on which to take friends and family, I would look for something else.

There are different versions of the Folkboat, some with a bit higher cabin, some have been "finished" in the interior, but the ones I have seen were all very bare interiors in wood boats. I will post few photos to show some examples.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Folkboat crew on rail.jpg
Views:	111
Size:	60.4 KB
ID:	97447   Click image for larger version

Name:	Folkboat cockpit.jpg
Views:	119
Size:	80.3 KB
ID:	97448  

Click image for larger version

Name:	Folkboat Interior 1.jpg
Views:	207
Size:	157.4 KB
ID:	97449   Click image for larger version

Name:	Folkboat interior 3 bare.jpg
Views:	125
Size:	24.8 KB
ID:	97450  

Click image for larger version

Name:	Folkboat interior bare.jpg
Views:	119
Size:	61.1 KB
ID:	97451   Click image for larger version

Name:	Folkboat International PLAN.gif
Views:	104
Size:	49.6 KB
ID:	97452  

__________________
Ahoy All Sailors! Need experienced crew for a passage or delivery in Atlantic, Pacific, Caribbean, Med, PNW, ICW, coastal or across an ocean anytime in 2017? I am available on 24hr notice. See my CF Profile "About Me" page for details. Happy to lend a hand!
Steady Hand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-02-2015, 15:42   #34
Moderator
 
Don C L's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Channel Islands, CA
Boat: 1962 Columbia 29 MK 1 #37
Posts: 4,395
Images: 34
Re: Max length = 26 feet

Get the Nonsuch!
__________________
DL
Pythagoras
1962 Columbia 29 MKI #37
Don C L is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 19-02-2015, 17:53   #35
Moderator Emeritus
 
Ex-Calif's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Singapore
Boat: Maxi 77 - Relax Lah!
Posts: 11,514
Images: 4
Re: Max length = 26 feet

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ishmael View Post
but will it give me the real sailing experience I'd need - as a stepping stone to a larger boat if/when my number comes up for a bigger mooring permit. I'm not really into racing (per se), but I'd like to know how to fly a spinnaker etc.. Should I just save that for the "next" boat (if and when that time comes)?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steady Hand View Post
Howdy!


I think "flying a spinnaker" is something good to know, but seldom done by a single hander (unless skilled as a sailor) or only in benign conditions, and seldom done by most people who are NOT in a race and usually only done with adequate crew to fly it and take it down safely. So, it is one of those "nice to know" things that I don't consider essential for good cruising or average sailing or having fun on a boat for casual sails with friends etc.
Relax Lah! was my starter boat. I learned to do all those things and maintain it over the last 8 years.

In reading between the lines I suspect you want to "enjoy" sailing vs. work at it.

I learned that my next boat will have an asym on a furler. I can't count on having sufficient crew to fly a spinnaker and pole in all conditions. Yes single handers fly a spinnaker and I have done it two up with Otto helping. In any sort of wind it could go south quick.

So get any boat under 26 feet that you like to be on - look for cabin features and make sure it has most "big boat" stuff like diesel engine, electrical systems, heads, water systems - this is the stuff you need to learn - maintaining big boat systems long term.

It will also teach you how to sail.

While classics are nice and the heavier displacement is more "big boat" like I would consider a production plastic boat for the sole reason that all the hardware on the boat should be available. Some classic boats have custom rigging that is like that rare metal unobtanium.

Don't overthink it, don't get a project boat but don't spend a bomb on it.

After a 2 1/2 year refit on my boat I can tell you sailing is more fun than fixing.
__________________
Relax Lah! is For Sale <--- Click
Click--> Custom CF Google Search or CF Rules
You're gonna need a bigger boat... - Martin Brody
Ex-Calif is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-02-2015, 07:47   #36
Registered User

Join Date: May 2011
Location: St-Barthelemy Island, French West Indies
Boat: Ericson 34
Posts: 325
Images: 1
Re: Max length = 26 feet

I think "flying a spinnaker" is something good to know, but seldom done by a single hander (unless skilled as a sailor) or only in benign conditions, and seldom done by most people who are NOT in a race and usually only done with adequate crew to fly it and take it down safely. So, it is one of those "nice to know" things that I don't consider essential for good cruising or average sailing or having fun on a boat for casual sails with friends etc.

I flew a spinnaker alone last summer on Lake Michigan because 1) the wind was light 2) I had a spinnaker "sock" (Most excellent contraption!) & 3) an Autohelm 4000 ... Otherwise, I agree, if the wind starts to increase, you need somebody holding the spinnaker sheet all the time, ready to let go in case a strong gust starts to luff the boat regardless of your tiller action
My "ideal" cruising sailboat would have one or two spinnaker poles always stored alongside the mast, ready to be used. On long downwind passages (Across the Pacific or the Atlantic, on the Trades routes) I used them with two genoas & no mainsail
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	SpiPoleOnMast.jpg
Views:	106
Size:	116.9 KB
ID:	97498   Click image for larger version

Name:	Hanna-headsails.jpg
Views:	116
Size:	75.1 KB
ID:	97500  

__________________
ALAIN97133 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-02-2015, 11:54   #37
Registered User
 
Steady Hand's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Crewing All of 2017 Available Globally
Boat: OPB = Crewing in 2017
Posts: 4,851
Re: Max length = 26 feet

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ex-Calif View Post
I can't count on having sufficient crew to fly a spinnaker and pole in all conditions. Yes single handers fly a spinnaker and I have done it two up with Otto helping. In any sort of wind it could go south quick.
My comments are for the OP or anyone who may not yet have experience with spinnakers.

I have seen many boats flying spinnakers, with full race crew, "go south" with disastrous results. Spinnakers are the one sail, in my opinion, that have the most potential to cause significant damage to a boat, if the boat is overpowered (too much wind, not proper control on the spinnaker).

Controlling the spinnaker is the challenge.

In light winds, this can be accomplished with a small crew who is attentive. As many sailors only sail in light to moderate winds, this can be the common experience. Flying the spinnaker can be beautiful and fun and nothing beats seeing a bunch of boats with colorful spinnakers flying. So, I don't doubt there are many sailors who think there is "nothing to it" to use a spinnaker, especially if they have a full crew on their boat.

In gusty winds or strong winds, the element of risk of broach increases greatly.

In some cases a spinnaker can become "uncontrollable" and it requires quick responses from the crew to maintain control by quick adjustment of the spinnaker sheet and guy. Quick responses and coordinated effort by an experienced crew is the key. This usually means one person on the helm, one person on the guy, and one person on the sheet. Each has a role and each should be aware of what is happening to the boat and sails and wind. If you are just a couple on a boat, I think this becomes a problem, especially if the wind is gusting, requiring quick adjustments.

If the spinnaker is allowed to get out of control, the boat is very likely to begin rolling to the point of a broach.

Broaches are NO fun.
They happen very quickly, and as the boat rolls into the broach the crew is usually left clinging to anything they can to stay on the boat, as the deck will be perpendicular (vertical) to the water as the mast goes down to the water's surface (spreaders in the water).

Risk?
I have seen crew thrown off a boat, and in one case I witnessed, this led to two very skilled sailors dying.

If the broach is to leeward, the spinnaker is likely going to go in the water until the sails are depowered.

What's worse?
If the broach occurs on a windward "roll" there is a chance the mainsail will crash gybe and the boom will cross the boat with possible severe damage. This is very risky and dangerous to crew and boat.

________________
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Spinnaker broach 1.jpg
Views:	200
Size:	181.1 KB
ID:	97524   Click image for larger version

Name:	Spinnaker wreck 2.jpg
Views:	144
Size:	47.9 KB
ID:	97525  

Click image for larger version

Name:	Spinnaker broach 2.jpg
Views:	143
Size:	123.5 KB
ID:	97526   Click image for larger version

Name:	Spinnaker broach 4.jpg
Views:	162
Size:	50.5 KB
ID:	97527  

Click image for larger version

Name:	Spinnaker Pitchpole.jpg
Views:	193
Size:	68.0 KB
ID:	97528   Click image for larger version

Name:	Spinnaker wreck 1.jpg
Views:	161
Size:	92.0 KB
ID:	97529  

__________________
Ahoy All Sailors! Need experienced crew for a passage or delivery in Atlantic, Pacific, Caribbean, Med, PNW, ICW, coastal or across an ocean anytime in 2017? I am available on 24hr notice. See my CF Profile "About Me" page for details. Happy to lend a hand!
Steady Hand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-02-2015, 12:17   #38
Registered User
 
Ryan H's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Massachusetts
Boat: Grampian 26, Mercury 15, Formosa 41
Posts: 264
Images: 3
Re: Max length = 26 feet

Pick up a Grampian 26 for next to no money and go have fun. 6' head room, decent interior space, sails well, and is about as forgiving a boat as a novice can sail. If you're already looking into a larger mooring why spend the $$$ for something you don't plan on keeping for long? You'll find them on Craigslist for between 1500$ and 3000$ in the area.

Sent from my C6730 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
__________________
Ryan H is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-02-2015, 01:06   #39
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Jacksonville, Florida
Boat: Ericson 27, 1978
Posts: 47
Images: 5
Re: Max length = 26 feet

My two cents. Get a hunter. You can pick up a 30 ft hunter made after 2000 for 35000-50000. Your wife will go with you: hot water that's pressurized, microwave, ac, fridge, shower. Even big older boats no matter how spacious don't offer what a woman wants.
Anything else, e.g. My Ericson 27 will be for you alone not you plural.


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum
__________________
Oceanbrew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-03-2015, 08:05   #40
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: "...barren elbow of sand..."
Boat: O'Day Daysailer 3
Posts: 186
Images: 3
Re: Max length = 26 feet

Leaning toward the Ericson now for the following reasons:

1) Half the money
2) Whatever I get, isn't the "dream boat"; it's a stepping stone
3) Next boat after this will likely be a larger sloop, so I'll have better practice on a smaller sloop than on a catboat with a wishbone rig.
4) The Ericson has all the same systems and necessary features that the Nonsuch has.

Planning to go look at a couple of Ericsons next week (if I can get away).
__________________
Ishmael is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-03-2015, 08:24   #41
Registered User
 
Scout 30's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Florida
Boat: Scout 30
Posts: 2,352
Re: Max length = 26 feet

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oceanbrew View Post
My two cents. Get a hunter. You can pick up a 30 ft hunter made after 2000 for 35000-50000. Your wife will go with you: hot water that's pressurized, microwave, ac, fridge, shower. Even big older boats no matter how spacious don't offer what a woman wants.
Anything else, e.g. My Ericson 27 will be for you alone not you plural.


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum
Kind of missed the point of the thread.
__________________
Scout 30 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-03-2015, 08:31   #42
Registered User
 
Scout 30's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Florida
Boat: Scout 30
Posts: 2,352
Re: Max length = 26 feet

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ishmael View Post
Leaning toward the Ericson now for the following reasons:

1) Half the money
2) Whatever I get, isn't the "dream boat"; it's a stepping stone
3) Next boat after this will likely be a larger sloop, so I'll have better practice on a smaller sloop than on a catboat with a wishbone rig.
4) The Ericson has all the same systems and necessary features that the Nonsuch has.

Planning to go look at a couple of Ericsons next week (if I can get away).
It's a lot cheaper because it's a lot less boat. Don't buy it because it's cheaper, buy it because it's better. Don't let length define your dream boat. There are really great boats at every length.
__________________
Scout 30 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-03-2015, 08:35   #43
Registered User
 
oldragbaggers's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Wherever the boat is
Boat: Cape Dory 33
Posts: 1,019
Re: Max length = 26 feet

A Bristol 24 would be a great boat for your purposes. They are very stable, have standing headroom if you are both under 6', the most comfortable v-berth I've ever seen in a boat that size, and can usually be had for not too much money. And it's a sloop.
__________________
Southbound on the ICW

https://share.delorme.com/SVAnteris
oldragbaggers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-03-2015, 09:44   #44
Registered User

Join Date: May 2011
Location: St-Barthelemy Island, French West Indies
Boat: Ericson 34
Posts: 325
Images: 1
Re: Max length = 26 feet

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ishmael View Post
Leaning toward the Ericson now for the following reasons: 1) Half the money 2) Whatever I get, isn't the "dream boat"; it's a stepping stone 3) Next boat after this will likely be a larger sloop, so I'll have better practice on a smaller sloop than on a catboat with a wishbone rig. 4) The Ericson has all the same systems and necessary features that the Nonsuch has...
I just purchased a fresh water Ericson 34 on lake Michigan last summer, & I say "Go for it" Ericsons are very well built & I think that for $20 or 25K you could even get a 28, 29 or 30 footer. It took me $75 and 5 & 1/2 days to motor mine from Buffalo NY to the Hudson river via the Erie Canal... It's worth every penny to have a fresh water sailboat

1988 Ericson 28 -2 sailboat for sale in New Jersey
1985 Ericson 30 Plus sailboat for sale in New Jersey
or a fresh water diesel equiped
1979 Ericson e29 sailboat for sale in Michigan
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Erie_Canal.jpg
Views:	79
Size:	181.6 KB
ID:	98989  
__________________
ALAIN97133 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-03-2015, 09:59   #45
Registered User
 
oldragbaggers's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Wherever the boat is
Boat: Cape Dory 33
Posts: 1,019
Re: Max length = 26 feet

People keep suggesting larger boats to the OP but he stated in his opening post that he was limited to 26' for the mooring that he has and the waiting list for a mooring for a larger boat is several years.
__________________

__________________
Southbound on the ICW

https://share.delorme.com/SVAnteris
oldragbaggers is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
25' Yanmar 3GM30 Exhaust Run (!)... Max Length / Height ? akio.kanemoto Engines and Propulsion Systems 19 15-06-2010 10:13



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 14:30.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.