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Old 01-03-2011, 10:17   #76
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Re: Mast Trimming Help !

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Originally Posted by savoir View Post
Not at all, unless you can locate a place with current on the stern pushing in different direction to current on the bow. I have never sailed in such a place. In the real world the current will push equally on all parts of the hull to which it has access.

"In the real world the current will push equally on all parts of the hull to which it has access",Happy seagull agrees over and over again....except the usage of "pushing"."Carrying" is better,like seaweed,fish,and logs,etc.

You continue to confuse increased pointing due to current and weather helm. They are not the same. Increased pointing due to current is undetectable to anyone on the affected boat who does not have access to a fixed reference point.
now,I admit confusion -how do I confuse "pointing" due to current and weather helm-but I'll get out of this quote here...
I'm not getting it either.i WANT to tidy up here,believe me.
because you quoted the below partly in red,I'm thinking your pointing argument is exacerbated by it?...

"My boat actually has weather helm in this situation.She'll round up if I release the tiller.I REPEAT there is no wind caused by weather.It's a flat calm past the pass.Now,did the current cause weather helm?It caused apparent wind and that gave weather helm.See?"

it's just about weather helm.not "pointing".Not "differing each tack" either....it was for bewitched who got me goinwith his..turns out ny fault re semantics....now,can you agree with the above as a simple,simple, simple model or not? NOTE:that "round up"doesn't mean pointing higher as in "racing efficiency".it just means I have to steer or the boat'll luff too much and lose way.Weather helm,that is.

Maybe you are quoting the wrong post of mine that you are arguing.That's ok but it's harder for me to rebut because I could get your sense wrong and more confusion.You particularly mentioned the pointing argument after my #55 Mast Trimming Help ! ....so maybe you can find the post # and quote it to me?Because I can and have argued that current can change pointing too...but only in passing relevance to the original "Can"weather Helm" change tack to tack due to current"...
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Old 01-03-2011, 18:26   #77
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Re: Mast Trimming Help !

Heh heh heh - don't blame me

I'm not sure I can debate my point of view much further, so I think my parting statement will be:

I don't believe you can 'feel' current when sailing - at least I've never felt it - not on the sails, the hull or the rudder. There are many ways to determine if current is present, but all require observation and/or calculation to a 'Ground' reference.

Current doesn't cause weather helm. Weather helm is caused by poor design, poor boat set up or poor sail trim.
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Old 01-03-2011, 20:45   #78
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Re: Mast Trimming Help !

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Heh heh heh - don't blame me

I'm not sure I can debate my point of view much further, so I think my parting statement will be:

I don't believe you can 'feel' current when sailing - at least I've never felt it - not on the sails, the hull or the rudder. There are many ways to determine if current is present, but all require observation and/or calculation to a 'Ground' reference.

Current doesn't cause weather helm. Weather helm is caused by poor design, poor boat set up or poor sail trim.
No,no.Blame you for what?I just can't see where you're coming up with

"I don't believe you can 'feel' current when sailing - at least I've never felt it - not on the sails, the hull or the rudder. There are many ways to determine if current is present, but all require observation and/or calculation to a 'Ground' reference."

and

"Current doesn't cause weather helm. Weather helm is caused by poor design, poor boat set up or poor sail trim."

it sounds nuts to me.And launches me into more hapless attempts per sailing 101....as in,if a boat were adrift,no wind,no current,no oxygen,whatever.There would be no weather helm.Zero.If the wind springs up,and you hoist sail in your "badly designed boat",there is now "weather helm".It is the force of the wind expressed through the tiller.From zero to xpounds force.Forget that it likely dips through LEE helm,it's still a line on a graph.
Now the wind dies as you slip past the bw slower slower ... into a 30 knot current.yes,30.the "wind" sure picked up didn't it?
Are you "feeling" anything yet?How about them sails.What's goin on there?any "effect"? And do you still have HELM?
Well,just what do you think is the cause.It ain't semantics.it's just a point of view necessary to the original question. Sure,You are feeling the force of the moon(tidal current) or a distant rainfall (the sun's heat, gravity,etc..) through the tiller.Current is another more common name.Likewise "wind" is solar power ,gravity and the earths rotation but we call it "wind".

If nothing else works,I have to say this:If there were no weather and no wind due to it anywhere on Earth,just 30 knot currents,sails would still have been invented."Badly designed"B boats would still have weather helm.
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Old 02-03-2011, 10:14   #79
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Re: Mast Trimming Help !

Semantics 101:
if I put my hand out the window of a moving car,I feel "wind".
what is the cause of the wind?The car?No,it's the moving car.

If a boat is drifting at 30 knots,what is the cause of the "wind" I feel.Water?the boat?No.It's the moving water-the current.

If my sails fill with this (30 knot!)wind, the boat heels and the boat wants to round up,what is the cause?....the boat?or the current?
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