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Old 28-02-2013, 16:09   #1
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marine survey advice

Im looking at buying a 1977 hunter 27. I have a copy of the marine survey from last year, was wondering if someone can go over it and give me their opinion. thanks
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Old 28-02-2013, 16:12   #2
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Re: marine survey advice

I would be suspicious of an old survey, especially in the New York area after Sandy.
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Old 28-02-2013, 16:20   #3
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Is it a purchase survey or an insurance survey? Purchase survey is much more detailed. Post the findings page on here.
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Old 28-02-2013, 16:29   #4
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Re: marine survey advice

Ardi

You are asking for free advice from strangers if you should spend you money?

OK here is my advice.... A one year old survey for a boat worth $10k or less is probably still good enough.

You should be able to read the Survey Report and determine if the boat is in good shape or if the deficiencies are something you are willing to deal with. Also compare the survey with the boat and make sure all equipment listed is still there and working.

As mentioned earlier ask the owners to proivde proof of where the vessel was in the Sandy Huriane and if it was damged.
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Old 28-02-2013, 16:31   #5
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Re: marine survey advice

OVERALL CONDITION: “FAIR”

The hull design is that of a displacement hull with a fin keel. No evidence of significant damage below the waterline was noted. The hull is constructed of Fiber Reinforced Plastic (FRP) lay up above and below the waterline. Internal bilge stringers and plywood bulkheads serve to stiffen the hull.
The toe rails are aluminum concealing the hull to deck joint. Where visible (on the interior), the hull to deck joint is mechanically fastened. The hull to deck joint appears intact with no movement noted.
The hull was percussion sounded. No moisture meter readings were taken as the hull had been rained on and surface moisture will bias the Electrophysics Model GRP 33 moisture meter.
Percussion soundings were unremarkable.
The bottom is painted with a hard-finish, blue antifouling paint. The bottom has not been painted recently and has a heavy build up of oxidized bottom paint that is chipping in many areas. Soundings of the bottom were unremarkable. Note: The copper content of the bottom paint) can artificially elevate moisture meter readings. The thickness of the FRP can dampen readings of the core material. Moisture meter readings are relative and not quantitative and these meters can be affected by many factors other than moisture and that percussion soundings are subjective in nature. Only destructive core sampling can definitively determine exact moisture levels.
A careful visual examination of the bottom showed no evidence of osmotic blisters where sighted. Note: Small blisters can often only be observed if the bottom paint is removed. This was not requested.
The causes of various blisters are complex and absence of blisters at this time is not a guarantee that they will not develop at a later time. The development of blisters depends on many factors such as the temperature and salinity of the water, the quality of the hull lay-up and the type of resin used when the vessel was built.
No hull blisters, hard spots or significant cracks were noted at the time of survey when sighting down the sides of the bottom from bow to stern and vice-versa.

Keel
The keel is lead and appears in line with the rudder and mast from the vantage points viewed. Keel bolt heads were tapped with a hammer and rang true. There was a small gap between the keel and keel shoe on the hull – See recommendation to follow.
Rudder, Propeller, Shaft, Shaft Log, Strut, Cutless Bearing & Anodes
The rudder soundings were unremarkable. No visible evidence of grounding, cracks or weeping was noted. No rudder play was noted and the rudder appears securely fastened to the stock. The rudder appeared aligned with the keel.

A single approximately 12” diameter, two blade, bronze propeller is secured to a stainless steel shaft. The propeller appears sound with no visibly broken/bent blades or significant pitting sighted.
Note: Before changes are made to the propping on the vessel, the existing propeller dimensions and pitch should be measured with the appropriate equipment to verify the actual dimension.
No significant wear of the shaft was sighted around the cutless bearing. Shaft appears centered through hull where sighted. Cutless bearing wear appears normal on forward and aft end of bearing. Shaft wear in these areas can be caused by excessive movement of the engine mounts while underway. Evaluation of shaft wear inside the cutless bearing is not visible with both in their current positions. Should the client want to evaluate shaft wear on the portion in direct contact with the cutless bearing, the shaft will have to be slid back or the cutless bearing removed.
The shaft strut is secured to the hull with no movement noted. Evidence of excessive forward and backward movement of the shaft within the cutlass bearing was not observed.
The shaft seal is a stuffing box type and is fastened with stainless steel clamps. Evidence of leaks was noted based on the green patina visible on the bronze hardware - Monitor.
The anodes that were sighted on the propeller shaft are serviceable and appear to be in direct contact with the shaft in order to provide the best protection against corrosion, mounted as not to restrict water flow to strut bearings or past the propeller and mounted on a surface that can not trap gas bubbles. No anodes were noted in areas marked for lifting slings or chocks.
Checking the propeller shaft / engine alignment was beyond the scope of the survey and was not done. Generally, propeller shaft / engine alignment is checked with the vessel in the water with fuel and water tanks filled to their normal levels.
The following observations were made relating to Safety/CFR Compliance/ABYC/NFPA Recommendations:
• The inboard end of the stuffing box hose is fastened with only one hose clamp. If there is room, another hose clamp should be added for safety.
• Check stuffing box for excessive leaks upon launch and after running engine in gear.
• With weight off keel, e.g. when picked up for launching, check keel to hull joint for movement
along joint and if movement noted, inspect keel bolts.
ABYC recommends the following anode material depending on the specific water conditions the vessel is
primarily in:
Thru Hulls
Water Conditions
Saltwater Brackish Fresh
Anode Composition
Zinc Aluminum Magnesium
All the intakes and discharge thru hulls appear clear. Intake and discharge thru hulls are bronze (below waterline) / plastic (above waterline) where sighted and appear in fair condition. Intake and discharge

thru hulls were sighted in the following locations:
Purpose
Engine Intake Engine Exhaust Galley Sink
Cockpit Scuppers
Location on Hull
Starboard, aft of keel Transom, near static water line Next to engine intake
Purpose
Knot Meter Depth Sounder Bilge Pump
Location on Hull
Port, Aft of keel
Next to engine intake Port, Amidship, above static water line.
Two, at transom, above static waterline
The following observations were made relating to Safety/CFR Compliance/ABYC/NFPA Recommendations:
• Double clamp all below waterline hoses where fittings permit for safety Topsides
Topsides are off-white gel coat in poor condition with some spiral cracks to the gelcoat, visible gelcoat repairs and oxidation noted. Soundings were unremarkable and FRP mat “Print through” was not readily visible on the outside of the hull. The majority of the damage outlined and photographed in the survey report is on the starboard side of the vessel. This may indicate the vessel was pushed hard against something on that side.
Transom
The transom was sounded. Soundings were unremarkable. The transom gelcoat is in poor cosmetic condition with damage to starboard side of cap rail.
Decks
Decks and the cockpit are white, cored FRP. A light blue pattern is molded into the decks. The gel coat is original and has not been painted. Overall condition is poor with some stress cracks in the gel coat as well as crazing of the gelcoat noted. Soundings were “Dull” compared to the rest of the deck in the following areas:
• Port and starboard side decks in areas approximately 1-2’ around the stanchion bases – See photos
• The middle and forward portions of the foredeck around and aft of the anchor locker and chain hauser – See photos
These areas should be monitored and hardware rebedded to prevent possible further degradation of the bond between the FRP skin and core material.
MAST, SPARS & RIGGINIG
General Rig Description
The rig is a sloop configuration with single headsail and provisions for a spinnaker. The deck stepped mast is conventionally stayed, with a single sets of spreaders , laterally stayed with upper and

intermediate shrouds. Fore and aft staying is accomplished with single fore and backstays.
Mast Column & Step
The mast is a continuous extrusion of anodized aluminum with no taper in good condition as sighted from deck level. The mast was stepped and viewed from deck level at the time of survey. All mast fittings are stainless steel and appear in good condition where they could be sighted. Significant corrosion around the mast fittings was not sighted. Obvious dimples, bends were not sighted in the mast or spars. FOR RIGS OVER 10 YEARS OLD – RECOMMEND INSPECTION BY RIGGER PRIOR TO LAUNCH.
The mast is deck stepped. Compression loads are distributed to an aluminum mast base. The compression load path below is through a cross beam bulkhead. The mast step was in good condition.
Masthead: Not viewable for close inspection. Appears to be conventional aluminum.
Spreader/Bases: Aluminum mechanically fastened to the mast. Close inspection not possible from deck.
Tangs: Stainless steel where sighted. Close inspection not possible from deck
Gooseneck: Welded/polished stainless steel, w/ alloy lug for boom jaw- Good condition
Boom: Continuous, anodized aluminum extrusion in good condition. No bends sighted.
Tracks- Good condition where sighted.
Winches- Lewmar #6 halyard winch
Antennae- VHF at masthead. Appears secured and functioning. Close inspection not possible from deck.
Wind gear – Appears functional. Close inspection not possible from deck. Radar- Ratheon on alloy bracket. Close inspection not possible from deck. Mast splice- None sighted
Standing Rigging:
Consists of 1x 19 stainless steel cable swaged into turnbuckle ends in good condition where sighted. No broken wires noted at deck level. No significant visible crevice corrosion noted. The forestay is covered by the furler and was not viewable.
Running Rigging:
Older lines in fair condition with some stiffness and fraying noted.
ChainPlates
The chain plate leads are angled to the load paths. Their mounting points at the hull, transom, etc were visually examined. Evidence of significant corrosion was not sighted. Inner fasteners were not accessible

for viewing.
Turnbuckles
Turnbuckles are all open-barrel stainless steel. Turnbuckle studs are wire swaged terminals. Turnbuckles appear to be in visually good condition without obvious corrosion. Minor bends to some of the upper turnbuckle studs were sighted on both the port and starboard sides. Consider replacement for safety and given the age of the rig – See photos.
Winches
Primary sheet winches are Lewmar #7s. All winches were found to turn freely. Where visible, winches are thru bolted with washers.
Spinnaker Pole & Boom
Anodized, continuous extrusions of aluminum in good condition. Significant corrosion around the fittings was not sighted. Obvious dimples, bends were not sighted.
Running Rigging
The running rigging was surveyed from deck level. The running rigging consists of older blocks for sail control. No movement was noted in the main sheet control traveler track.
All halyards found in fair condition with some fraying / stiffness noted on their outer covering.
Roller Furler
The vessel is equipped with a 705 Seafurl, continuous line, roller furler mounted on the forestay. The furler was not operated during the survey. The furler sections appeared straight with no obvious damage noted at deck level.
Sails & Canvas
The main sail was viewed in the cabin. The main sail is white, synthetic material. The age is unknown. The sail appears serviceable.
Mainsail cover found to be in good condition.
Reboarding Means, Ladders, Handholds, Rails & Life Line Stanchions
A means for reboarding is provided at the transom. All ladders, handholds and stanchions were found secure with no movement noted.
Single lifelines are 1 x 19 stainless steel in fair condition. Exterior evidence of crevice corrosion on swages and stanchions was not noted. Stanchions and bases are stainless steel and are secure.

The following observations were made relating to Safety/CFR Compliance/ABYC/NFPA Recommendations:
• Before launch, have qualified rigger inspect all of upper and lower rigging.
Steering and Mechanical Propulsion Control System
Mechanical propulsion controls and steering engaged and operated at the time of survey. Control cables should be routinely inspected.
Anchoring, Mooring and Strong Points
Cleats, chocks, bow pulpit, anchor roller and pushpit were all found secure with no movement noted.
Port side bow chock is missing.
Ground Tackle
Three approximately 15 lb Danforth type anchors were sighted. An undetermined length of chain and rope rode was sighted in the forward anchor locker. Seizing wire on all anchor shackles was not sighted.
Cabin Top
The cabin top is white, cored FRP. A light blue, non-skid pattern is molded in. The gel coat is original and has not been painted. Overall condition of the cabin top is fair with some stress cracks in the gel coat noted. The cabin top was sounded. Soundings were “Dull” as compared to the rest of the cabin top in the following areas:
• Starboard side, along outer edge of companionway.
This area should be monitored.
All hardware was found secure.
Exterior Windows, Hatches & Port Lights
All the fixed and opening port lights / hatches are in fair condition with some cracks in the port lights along the cabin top sides noted. They were not leak tested.
Drainage
Two cockpit scuppers are located in the cockpit and drain out the transom at approximately the static waterline. The hoses appear in good condition and are clamped with stainless steel hose clamps where sighted.
HULL INTERIOR
The interior consists of a galley area to starboard as you descend the companionway with settees and dining table in the salon. Further forward is an enclosed head area with sink to starboard and forward of that is a vee berth at the bow. A quarter berth with locker is provided to port as you descend through the

companionway.
The interior has a primary and secondary means of exit if one is blocked by a fire in the galley or machinery space.
All opening ports hatches open, close and are provided with a means to be secured when closed.
Where visible, plywood bulk heads, stringers and knees are secured to the hull with FRP. The tabbing/covering in these areas was intact where sighted.
The cabin sole is sandwiched FRP with an unknown core material. The bottom of the cabin sole was not accessible. No movement was noted.
Installation of Potable Water System
The vessel is equipped with a 35 gallon aluminum water tank located under the forward vee berth in the bow. An electric water pump with pressure switch and accumulator tank is located under the forward vee berth. The pump and automatic switch powered up and responded when faucets were operated. Over current protection for the pump was sighted at the branch circuit on the 12 V DC panel in the salon.
Where sighted the plastic water lines appear in fair condition, routed above the bilge and clamped with stainless steel hose clamps. The water tank is supported / secured with no movement noted. The water fill is located directly on the tank and not on the deck.
The vessel does not have a means to connect to a shore water system that was sighted.
The vessel is not equipped with an electric hot water heater or engine fired heat exchanger for hot water. Installation of Gray Water System
No shower sumps with pumps were sighted. Seacocks were not sighted for the head sink and bilge pump discharge thru hulls. The hoses appear to be non collapsible with stainless steel hose clamps sighted in good condition.
The following observations were made relating to Safety/CFR Compliance/ABYC/NFPA Recommendations:
• Per ABYC Recommendation - Fit discharge thru hulls that discharge below the heeled waterline (sheer line for sailboats)with seacocks so they can be closed off if a hose ruptures.
• Seizing wire on anchor shackles was not sighted –Add for safety
Installation of Black Water System
No holding tank or toilet sighted.
Electric / Manual Bilge Pump System
The bilge is accessed through the salon floor board. The bilge was found to be dirty with some incidental water present. No fuel smell or oily sheen on the bilge water was visible at the time of survey.

A Rule, 500 GPH 12 V electric submersible bilge pump and float switch was sighted. Verification of the pump’s operation was not confirmed as there was not enough water in the bilge to pump . The pump did power up when the float switch was activated and water could be heard moving through the pump discharge line. A stray current grounding connection is not required as the pump’s housing non-metallic. Hose connections provide support & permit the use of clamps where sighted.
Electrical connections to the pump are consistent with ABYC guidelines where sighted. Conductors should be run as far as practical above the normal bilge water level. Over current protection for the bilge pump was sighted at the branch circuit of the 12 V DC panel. The pump is protected to prevent the ingress of debris and securely mounted to resist pump movement during normal service. The pump discharge system is not restricted by extreme bends where sighted. A manual bilge pump switch and indictor light was not sighted. A visual indicator of automatic bilge switch operation was not sighted. The vessel is not equipped with a bilge discharge manifold system.
The discharge thru hull is not located above the maximum heeled water line (Sheer line for a sail boat). A seacock and / or vented loop were not sighted.
All hose connections are secured with stainless steel hose clamps where sighted.
The vessel is also equipped with a manual, diaphragm, bilge pump which can be operated from the cockpit.
The following observations were made relating to Safety/CFR Compliance/ABYC/NFPA Recommendations:
• ABYC Recommends – If the discharge thru hull is not located above the maximum heeled water line (Sheer line for a sail boat). A seacock and vented loop should be added.
• Verify bilge pump is pumping by filling bilge with water.
Seacocks, Thru Hulls and Drain Plugs
Seacocks were visible on the starboard side of the vessel near the engine. The thru hulls appear to be bronze as are the seacocks. All were backed with blocking. All were found to operate, are connected to galvanically compatible fittings and are accessible. No bonding system wires were observed.
The following observations were made relating to Safety/CFR Compliance/ABYC/NFPA Recommendations:
• All hoses attached to fittings below the waterline should be connected with two non- overlapping, stainless steel hose clamps if room on the fitting permits.
Cabin Heater
None sighted
Ventilation / Lighting
Cabin ventilation is accomplished via single opening hatch and companionway hatch. Lighting is provided via natural sources and 12 V fixtures. The 12 V cabin lights were powered up and those with

bulbs worked.
Oil burning lamps in the salon are gimbaled and are outfitted with shields. Galley
The vessel’s galley is equipped with a pressurized stove, sink and ice box. Pressurized Stove Fuel
The stove is labeled for kerosene use only. However, it appears that alcohol may be used as a fuel source for the stove based on the smell in the cockpit locker near the stainless steel manually pressurized cylinder holding the stove fuel.
Fabrics were sighted within 27.6” vertical radius from the cooking surface directly over the burners of the stove.
The following observations were made relating to Safety/CFR Compliance/ABYC/NFPA Recommendations:
• Per ABYC – Fabrics need to be further away than 27.6 “ from a stove’s burners.
• Ensure the stove is not plumbed with alcohol for fuel as this is not recommended per
manufacturer’s label on the stove.
Cooking System with Integral LPG Cylinders
None sighted.
Refrigeration System
An ice box is located in the galley area and drains to the bilge.
Carbon Monoxide and Smoke Detection System
The following observations were made relating to Safety/CFR Compliance/ABYC/NFPA Recommendations:
• The vessel is not equipped with a smoke or carbon monoxide detection system – Consider adding per ABYC and NFPA recommendations.
Even with the best of boat design and construction, and scrupulous attention to inspection, operation, and maintenance of boat systems, hazardous levels of CO may, under certain conditions, be present in interior spaces and exterior areas. Vigilant observation of passengers for CO sickness symptoms should be supplemented by a marine CO detection device in the accommodation space. Detection devices should meet the requirements of ABYC A-24, Carbon Monoxide Detection Systems on Boats.

Upholstery / Joinery Work
The upholstery on the cushions was found in good condition. Upholstery on the interior hull sides is falling down in places and stained with mold. Joinery work is teak in fair condition and fit where sighted.
Propulsion
The engine and installation was visually surveyed only. No diagnostic analyses were conducted.
Propulsion is provided by a Yanmar, 8 HP (reported) diesel engine. These were the typical engines for Hunters of this size according to published literature. Typically, wide open throttle for small diesels is in the 2500 -2800 RPM range. Serial number and builder plate listing HP and WOT RPMs was not sighted. The engine is raw water cooled . The engine is in fair cosmetic condition with 431 hours stated on the meter. The Verification of the meter operation was not conducted as the engine was not run. Visual inspection of the motor mounts / bracket and fasteners indicated they appear to be secure. Cooling hoses were in fair condition where sighted. The crankcase was full and the oil black. The engine may need an oil change. The bottom of the oil pan was not heavily rusted.
Throttle linkages were secure. Pooled deposits of oil / fuel were / were not sighted. The engine was not started as part of the survey. It is recommended a sea trial be performed to evaluate the engine’s performance.
Diesel Fuel System and Ventilation
The vessel is equipped with a diesel fuel system for the main engine. The system appeared liquid tight to the hull interior spaces at the time of survey. Fuel staining was not sighted. Fuel lines are in fair condition and installed to minimize strain. A means to determine fuel level is provided. No drain valves, other than at the tank and fuel filter, were sighted (other than from the fuel filter bowl). Flexible fuel lines had no visible labeling as to the type on them and may be original.
A manually operated fuel shut off valve was sighted at the tank and appears frozen open.
The fuel system is equipped with a primary and secondary fuel filter. The primary fuel filter is loose (missing a mounting screw) and is connected to copper fuel line. Plugs do not appear to be creating a galvanic cell with the filter housing.
The 12.5 gallon (labeled) aluminum fuel tank is located in the starboard cockpit lazarette. The tank is not integral to the hull or installed above the engine or ignition source. A fuel tank label was sighted. Connections to the tank are accessible where sighted and the tank is installed so that a means for removal / service is provided. The tank appears secure with no movement noted. Supports to lift the tank bottom at least 1⁄4” off the plywood shelf are not provided. The tank is installed above normal bilge water accumulation.
The fuel tank fill system hose is not secured with at least two hose clamps on each end of the fuel fill hose. Fuel vent lines have at least one clamp on each fitting.
The deck plate carries a permanent label as to the fuel type and is labeled “Diesel”. Fuel fill line from the deck are self draining. The fuel fill line is made of rubber in fair shape, but no markings were legible and it may be original. The fuel fill is located on the starboard side of the cockpit coaming.

The exterior hull tank vent fitting has corroded away and should be replaced. The tank vent fitting is accessible and located at the highest part of the tank under normal conditions. The vent terminates on the transom.
The fuel system does not have a fuel return line that was sighted. Rigid fuel distribution lines are secured to the hull and are connected to the engine by flexible line. The rigid portion of the fuel line is not supported within 4” of the connection to the flexible line.
Bonding wires were not sighted for all metallic portions of the fuel fill system.
The following observations were made relating to Safety/CFR Compliance/ABYC/NFPA Recommendations:
• Flexible fuel lines had no visible labeling as to the type on them and may be original – Recommend replacement with USCG Approved Type A.
• A manually operated fuel shut off valve was sighted at the tank and appears frozen open – No way to shut off fuel flow.
• The primary fuel filter is loose (missing a mounting screw and is connected to copper fuel line – Vibration of the fuel filter can break the copper line over time resulting in a spill or sucking air into the diesel fuel supply to the engine, causing the engine to stop.
• Supports to lift the tank bottom at least 1⁄4” off the plywood shelf are not provided – ABYC recommendation to prevent corrosion of the bottom of the fuel tank.
• The fuel tank fill system hose is not secured with at least two hose clamps on each end of the fuel fill hose – ABYC Recommendation.
• The fuel fill line is made of rubber in fair shape, but no markings were legible and it may be original- Recommend replacement with USCG Approved Type A hose.
• The tank vent fitting has corroded away and should be replaced – Fitting is for diurnal expansion of headspace in tank and to offer flame suppression screen. In the current state it may do neither.
• The rigid portion of the fuel line is not supported within 4” of the connection to the flexible line – ABYC recommendation to prevent copper line from flexing over time and breaking.
• Bonding wires were not sighted for all metallic portions of the fuel fill system. ABYC recommendation.
• The tank may be as old as 35 years. It is recommended it be cleaned and pressure tested by a competent facility.
Diesel Engine Ventilation
Provision is made to provide combustion air to the vessel’s diesel engine. Vent openings are located outside weather enclosures above the sheer. Note – Ventilation openings below the sheer may lower the effective freeboard of the vessel.
Exhaust System Installations
The vessel is equipped with a wet exhaust system and water lift muffler located under the cockpit floor. Hoses are in fair condition and are labeled as Marine Exhaust Hose where sighted. All hose connections are accessible where sighted, double clamped with stainless steel hose clamps and supported.
Additional discharges other than exhaust cooling water do not share the same exhaust passage. An indicator at the helm station/ all helm stations that will alert the operator as to the loss of cooling water

supply was / was not sighted – Should cooling water stop flowing through the exhaust system, the temperature of the system can rise drastically and potentially cause a fire.
A siphon break device was not sighted.
The following observations were made relating to Safety/CFR Compliance/ABYC/NFPA Recommendations:
• ABYC recommends an exhaust overheat alarm on exhaust systems and a vented loop on water injection hose to prevent water from siphoning back through the exhaust system and into the engine.
Steering System
Steering is via tiller. The tiller fit onto the stock and was functional.
AC Electrical System
The vessel is equipped with a 120 volt, 30 Amp shore power receptacle with male fittings located on the port side of the cockpit coaming. The shore power cord appears in good condition with no burnt or corroded fittings. Conductivity was good between end fittings on the cord. A means to weatherproof the receptacle is provided. A manually reset, trip free breaker is installed within 10’ of the boat side shore power fitting that opens both current carrying conductors. The shore ground wire (Green) is not grounded to the shore and vessel’s grounding system that terminates at the engine block.
An AC power distribution panel is located in the cabin to port at the head of the quarter berth. The panel is not located over batteries. A manually reset, trip free breaker for the AC distribution panel is located at the panel and controls power to all branch circuits. A reverse polarity indicator was sighted on the distribution panel.
Branch circuits (1 for outlets) are protected by manually reset, trip free breaker. One outlet is a GFCI outlet with the other non GFCI 120 V outlets daisy chained off the GFCI outlet. Where visible, wiring was not copper strand going from the shore power inlet to the breaker panel and to the first outlet daisy chained off the GFCI outlet.
Where sighted, AC conductors are routed as high as practical above the bilge and more than 2” away from wet exhaust components. AC & DC conductors should be sheathed and/or bundled to keep separate.
A circuit analyzer and conductivity testing indicated all the non-GFCI 120 V outlets(in salon and head) are not grounded. This is a safety issue and should be remedied immediately by a competent marine electrician. Outlets were tested under load. A 15 Amp load was applied to each circuit with an Ideal Sure Test Circuit Analyzer. Voltage drop was acceptable given the long run of extension cord necessary. GFCI outlet was tested and passed the circuit test.
The following observations were made relating to Safety/CFR Compliance/ABYC/NFPA Recommendations:
• The shore ground wire (Green) is not grounded to the shore and vessel’s grounding system that terminates at the engine block – Recommended per ABYC and NFPA

• Where visible, wiring was not copper strand going from the shore power inlet to the breaker panel and to the first outlet daisy chained off the GFCI outlet. May not have been a requirement when the vessel was built. Stranded wire is recommended per ABYC and NFPA.
• A circuit analyzer and conductivity testing indicated all the non-GFCI 120 V outlets tested indicate they are not grounded. This is a safety issue and should be remedied immediately.
Galvanic Isolator
None sighted
Transformer
None sighted
Battery Chargers
The vessel is equipped with a pre-wired, 120 V, 10 Amp, Guest Charge Pro ’02 model 2611 battery charger located in a cabin locker forward of the port side quarter berth. The AC flexible cord does not appear to be < 72”. The battery charger is securely fastened to the vessel’s structure with adequate strain relief is provided for conductors. The battery charger is not installed directly over the batteries and is not installed in an area normally subject to splash/dripage. Overcurrent protection is provided within 7” of termination of the positive conductor going to the battery(s) / DC system. The conductors of the battery charger are terminated with crimp ring terminals that meet ABYC guidelines for connection to batteries. The battery charger powered up and was working as evidenced by voltage being delivered to the battery.
The following observations were made relating to Safety/CFR Compliance/ABYC/NFPA Recommendations:
• Ensure the battery charger get adequate locker ventilation per ABYC recommendation. Battery chargers and inverters can build up heat and cause a fire.
12 Volt Electrical System
The vessel’s 12 V system is not well organized. It appears that modifications have been done to it since the manufacturer installed it. All 12V wire system is two wire throughout where sighted. Switches and electrical controls are labeled to indicate their usage. The DC is grounded to the engine with the negative side connected to ground. The AC ground is not connected to the negative DC bus / engine negative terminal. The negative terminal or negative side of the DC system is connected to the engine negative terminal / engine negative bus. It was noted that numerous grounding conductors are all attached to fasteners in different places along the 12 V system. These should be connected to properly sized buses rated for marine applications. Positive battery terminals are not protected on both ends with boots or other form of protection.
The battery switch is readily accessible and close to the batteries it serves.
The DC panel boards are separated from the AC panel. Over current protection is provided w/in 7” (along the wire sheathing) of the battery where sighted. There are two 12 V DC panel boards. The one in the main cabin was active. It is unclear what the other 12 V panel board serves. It is located in a locker forward of the port side quarter berth. A second battery was not installed on the boat at the time of

survey, but provisions for a second battery were evident. Branch circuits are protected with fuses.
Plugs and receptacles exposed to weather appear weather proofed where sighted and protected from shorting against adjacent terminals.
Conductors were at least 16 AWG stranded copper where sighted outside the panel board. AC conductors should be kept bundled separately from DC conductors. Wire terminals meet ABYC standards where sighted, i.e. ring or captive spade.
No more than 4 terminals were sighted connected to any one battery terminal stud. Ring / captive spade connectors with the same nominal size as the stud where sighted. Battery cables were routed above bilge and not in contact with metallic fuel system components.
The following observations were made relating to Safety/CFR Compliance/ABYC/NFPA Recommendations:
• It was noted that numerous grounding conductors are all attached to fasteners in different places along the 12 V system. These should be connected to properly sized buses rated for marine applications – Safety consideration in the event of a short circuit.
• Conductors are not well supported or routed as high as practical above the bilge and other places water may accumulate nor at least 2” away from exhaust and other heat sources (2’ Minimum for wet exhaust) where sighted.
Storage Batteries
The vessel is equipped with a single AGM, 12V , storage battery at the time of survey with top terminals. Provisions are made for another storage battery. The battery compartment is located under the port quarter berth. Positive terminals are identified and mounting surfaces were clean. Provisions for incidental leakage is made with plastic battery boxes. The battery should be ordinarily secure with movement of less than 1” in any direction when a force of 90 lbs is applied.
The batteries are not directly above or below a fuel tank / fuel filter/fuel fitting or fuel line. Each battery is not protected from incidental contact with metallic objects by use of a boot. The battery system has a means to vent hydrogen gas.
Battery connections are secure where sighted with no spring tension connection to battery terminals. Conductor terminals are installed in order of highest ampacity closest to the battery terminal followed by successively lower ones where sighted.
The vessel’s battery read 12.8 volts without the battery charger on – Fully charged.
The following observations were made relating to Safety/CFR Compliance/ABYC/NFPA Recommendations:
• The battery is not secure. Movement is more than 1” allowed per CFR regulations

• Conductors sighted connected to the battery with wing nuts are >6AWG in size. Per ABYC E-10, wing nuts may not be used to connect conductors>6 AWG to batteries as the wing nuts can come loose when hand tightened.
• Positive battery terminals are not protected on both ends with boots or other form of protection- CFR, ABYC, NFPA requirement
Cathodic Protection
The vessel is equipped with a cathodic bonding system.
Lightning Protection
The vessel is not equipped with a lightning protection system.
Inverters
None sighted
Bonding Wires for Seacocks
None sighted
Electric Navigation Lights and Sound Signals
The vessel is equipped with the following electric navigation lights: Red (port side) / green (starboard side) and white steaming & stern light. The navigation lights comply with current with USCG requirements. Not all navigation lights were not found in working condition. The Starboard bow light did not light, the port bow light was dim and the masthead anchor light did not light.
All boats must be able to display navigation lights between sunset and sunrise and in conditions of reduced visibility. Boats 16 feet or more in length must have properly installed, working navigation lights and an all-around anchor light capable of being lit independently from the red/green/white "running" lights.
The following observations were made relating to Safety/CFR Compliance/ABYC/NFPA Recommendations:
• Not all navigation lights were not found in working condition. The Starboard bow light did not light, the port bow light was dim and the masthead anchor light did not light -Repair.

Fixed Fire Fighting Equipment
None sighted.
Portable Fire Extinguishers
The vessel is equipped with two, USCG Approved Type BC / B Size I fire extinguishers. All read as charged. However, they are from 1995 and consideration should be given to replacing them.
Fire Extinguishers (46 CFR Parts 25 – 28)
All fire extinguishers must have CG approval #162.028 or have an Underwriters Laboratory Marine listing. Portable fire extinguishers without gauges must have inspection cards attached and must be inspected every 6 months. All pressure filled fire extinguishers must be hydrostatically pressure tested every 5 years. Coast Guard approved extinguishers are hand portable, either B-I or B-II classification and have a specific marine-type mounting bracket. It is recommended the extinguishers be mounted in a readily accessible position. Minimum number of hand portable fire extinguishers required:
The following observations were made relating to Safety/CFR Compliance/ABYC/NFPA Recommendations:
• Hand held fire extinguishers are from 1995 and consideration should be given to replacing them.
Safety Equipment
Personal Floatation Devices (PFDs) – The following PFDs were sighted at the time of survey: 4 Adult Type II, One Type IV (Throwable). Per CFR 33 Section 175 PFDs must be in serviceable condition, stored for easy access and must be appropriately sized for the person wearing it (adult or child). There must also be one PFD for every person on board the vessel.
Equipment
Boats 26' to less than 40'
Fire Extinguishers
*Must say "Coast Guard Approved"
At least two B-I type approved portable fire extinguishers; OR
at least one B-II type approved portable fire extinguisher.

Emergency Position Indicating Response Beacon (EPIRB) None sighted.
Life Raft
None sighted.
Man Overboard Sling – A man overboard sling and undetermined amount of line was sighted.
Visual Distress Signals CFR 33 Sec 175
All vessels are required to have visual distress signals that are Coast Guard approved, serviceable, and readily accessible. They are marked with a date showing the service life, which must not have expired. If pyrotechnic devices are selected, a minimum of six are required. That is, three signals for day use and three signals for night. Some pyrotechnic signals meet both day and night use requirements. Pyrotechnic devices should be stored in a cool, dry location. A watertight container painted red or orange and prominently marked "DISTRESS SIGNALS" is recommended. There are other combinations
approved for day/night use. You can find a chart detailing the combinations in 33 CFR part 175.130. The following are just a few of the many combinations of devices that will meet the requirements:
• 3 hand-held red flares that are approved for day/night use
• 1 hand-held red flare and 2 parachute flares for day/night use
• 1 hand-held orange smoke signal and 2 floating orange smoke signals for day, and 1 electric distress light for night
All the visual distress signals sighted at the time of survey have expired. This meets does not meet USCG requirements.
Sec. 175.125 Serviceability
No person may use a boat unless each signal required by Sec. 175.110 is in serviceable condition and the service life of the signal, if indicated by a date marked on the signal, has not expired.
The following observations were made relating to Safety/CFR Compliance/ABYC/NFPA Recommendations:
• All the visual distress signals sighted at the time of survey have expired. This meets does not meet USCG CFR requirements - Replace
Sound Producing Device (COLREGS72)
The vessel is equipped with a human powered horn. This complies with current USCG requirements.
The navigation rules require sound signals to be made under certain circumstances. Meeting, crossing and overtaking situations described in the Navigation Rules section are examples of when sound signals are required. Vessels are also required to sound signals during periods of reduced visibility. Vessels 12 meters (39.4 feet) or more in length are required to carry on board a whistle or horn, and a bell. Any

vessel less than 12 meters in length may carry a whistle or a horn, or some other means to make an efficient sound. Therefore, any vessel less than 12 meters in length is required to make an efficient sound signal to signal your intentions and to signal your position in periods of reduced visibility.
Pollution and MARPOL Placards : Sighted. Vessel in compliance. Navigation / Electrical Equipment (Note)
Determination of navigational instruments accuracy is not encompassed in this level of survey and should be determined by operator or qualified technician. The vessel is equipped with the following electrical equipment:
VHF Radio – Standard, powered up transmitted and received on CH 24 to Sea Tow automated radio check station in Old Saybrook, CT. It was noted the rocker switch is loose causing radio not to turn on sometimes and on/off knob is loose - Repair
Sailing Instruments – West Marine, Powered up
Depth sounder – West Marine, Powered up
Radar – Raytheon- Digital display powered up but I did not see an active menu or display – Check with owner
GPS/Plotter - Garmap 930 – Could not get it to power up – Check with owner
Tiller Auto Pilot – Not powered up. Should be checked at sea trial vs compass/GPS
Gimbaled Compass: Bulkhead mounted, fluid clean and clear1. The compass is located so that it can be easily read by the boat operator. No deviation card for the compass was sighted. An uncorrected compass cannot be relied upon.
1 All boats have inherent varying magnetic characteristics. These are caused by various factors and combinations of factors. Strong magnetic influences can sometimes affect a compass significantly. Some interference's can be eliminated by the careful location of the compass itself. It should be located as far away as possible from large ferrous metal objects, i.e., engines, ballast, electrical coils, tools, etc., and electronic equipment, and other apparatus with strong electrical fields. Electric and electronic equipment, such as radios, indicators for electrical tachometers, electric windshield wipers, speakers, microphones, and other similar devices can affect the accuracy of the compass.
If compass interference is suspected, ABYC recommends that the compass be temporarily placed in the selected location, and all electrical accessories aboard should be operated, one at a time, to determine whether operation of specific equipment influences compass readings. Remove all metal tools, tool kits, and similar objects from proximity of the compass during this test. Special care should also be given to plastic steering wheels having a steel core. Such wheels should be rotated slowly, and any corresponding movement of the compass card noted. If accessories or steering wheel affect the compass readings, the compass should be moved to an unaffected location.
The following observations were made relating to Safety/CFR Compliance/ABYC/NFPA Recommendations:
• No deviation card for the compass was sighted. An uncorrected compass cannot be relied upon.
Miscellaneous
The vessel is equipped with the following miscellaneous equipment: Boat hook, misc. lines, cockpit cushions, shore power cord.
DATABASE SEARCHES
A search of the USCG Recalls Database indicated no records for this model Hunter.


FINDINGS & RECOMMENDATIONS
SAFETY / CODE OF FEDERAL REGULATION REQUIREMENTS
All safety and Mandatory Statutory CFR Requirements should be addressed immediately for compliance, crew and vessel safety.
 Fuel fill hose needs two clamps on each end – CFR 33 Part 183.564 – “Each hose in the tank fill system must be secured to a pipe, spud or hose fitting by two adjacent metallic hose clamps that do not depend solely on spring tension of the clamps for compressive force.”
 Replace old rubber fuel lines with USCG Approved Type A lines, A-1 for fuel and A-2 for fill and vent.
 Free up fuel shut off valve at fuel tank so fuel flow can be shut off in emergency.
 Add compass deviation card.
 Pressure test fuel tank.
 Double clamp both ends of shaft seal hose and check stuffing box for leaks after launch and
after engaging the prop shaft.
 Ensure bilge pump is pumping.
 Ensure correct fuel is used for stove.
 Ensure one USCG Approved Type I, II, III or V wearable, appropriately sized PFD for
each person is on board vessel and at least one Type IV Throwable PFD– CFR Title 33 Part
175
 Ensure wire runs are chafe protected when running through bulkheads around fittings. CFR 33 Part 183.445 “Each conductor or group of conductors that passes through a bulkhead, structural member, junction box or other rigid surface must be protected from abrasion.”
 Repair navigation lights that are not working –Required per Coast Guard Navigation Rules.
 All AC outlets off of the GFCI outlet are not grounded – Have a qualified marine electrician
investigate problem.
 Add visual distress signals are required to meets day and night requirements– CFR Title 33
Chapter 175, e.g. Three hand-held red flares (day and night), one handheld flare and two parachute flares (day and night), one hand-held orange smoke signal, or two floating orange smoke signals (day) and one distress light (night only)
 Replace fire extinguishers. They are old and the dry chemical may be compromised– USCG minimum 2 Size B-1 or 1 Size B-II for vessels 26-40’ long.
 Ungrounded (positive) terminals on batteries, busses, switches, etc are not protected by covers throughout vessel – CFR Title 33 Chapter 183
 Batteries – CFR 183.420 – Secure batteries so they will not move more than 1” in any direction.
 Add seizing to anchor and rode shackles.
 Rig is believed to be over 10 years old (may be original) and may not have been inspected
recently. Some rigging turnbuckles are bent – Have rigger inspect.
 Cover is missing from fuel vent – CFR 33 Part 183
 Clean/ Pressure test fuel tank as it may be original
 Double clamp or provide extra hose clamps for each thru hull hose below the waterline
 Address 12V wiring issues stated in report to minimize the chances for short circuits/fires.
 Reroute stove fuel lines away from propulsion controls.

ABYC, NFPA RECOMMENDATIONS
Based on voluntary ABYC and NFPA guidelines / recommendations and should be done as part of the regular maintenance and to enhance the safety of the vessel.
 AC shore ground wire (Green) does not appear to be grounded on the vessel – “The boat’s AC system grounding (green or green with yellow stripe) conductor shall be connected to the engine negative terminal or its bus” – NFPA 302 – Chapter 10.2.5 and ABYC E-11.5.5.3 A qualified marine electrician familiar with ABYC E-11 requirements can do this.
 Conductors touching exhaust system– ABYC E-11.14.6.5 – Conductors shall be routed as far as practicable from exhaust pipes & other sources of heat unless an equivalent thermal barrier is provides. A clearance of at least 2” between conductors & water cooled exhaust components shall be maintained.
 Add vented loop between engine water pump and injection point into manifold to prevent water siphoning back into engine cylinders. ABYC P-1.7.2.2 – The water lift system shall be designed to prevent siphoning through the raw water pump when the engine is stopped. If this is accomplished through the use of a siphon break device, it shall be installed at the top of a loop that shall rise high enough to assure that the high point where the siphon break device is installed will always be above the water level surrounding the boat. Depending on the design of the boat, the condition of its loading and the sea conditions encountered, this loop may be 12 to 18” above the waterline at repose. The loop shall be between the water pump outlet and the point of injection of cooling water into the exhaust system.
 Install a smoke and carbon monoxide detector in accommodation space – NFPA 302 Chapter 12. Smoke detector should be UL 217 listed and Carbon Monoxide detector UL 2034
 Reorganize/rewire/support conductors in bilge and route wires as far above the normal accumulation of bilge water as practical – ABYC E-11.
 Diesel Fuel Systems –Metallic tanks should be separated from flat mounting surfaces by at least 1⁄4” of air space. Diesel tank is in direct contact with mounting surface which can potentially trap water underneath and cause corrosion to the ferrous tank - ABYC H-33
 No grounding wires observed on fuel fill or tank. Add grounding wires connecting metallic portions of fuel fill system – ABYC H-33
 Keep fabrics out of the vertical zone (27.6”) of the stove top – ABYC A-3
 Support rigid fuel lines within 4” of connections to flexible lines – ABYC H-33
 ABYC recommends an exhaust system overheat alarm – ABYC P-1
 Original solid core copper wire used on portions of 120 V AC system. ABYC recommends
stranded copper wire (Boat cable) – ABYC E-11
 Ensure battery charger is well ventilated to reduce risk of fire – ABYC A-31
 Do not use wing nuts on conductors > 6 AWG, e.g. battery cables – ABYC E-10
 ABYC H-27 recommends seacocks on all thru hulls that are below the heeled water line of a
vessel. In the case of a sailboat, this is the sheer line, meaning the bilge pump and head sink
discharge lines would be below the vessel’s healed waterline.
 Provide chafe protection for copper stove fuel line where it penetrates bulkheads – ABYC
A-3

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Old 28-02-2013, 16:36   #6
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Re: marine survey advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremiason View Post
Ardi

You are asking for free advice from strangers if you should spend you money?

OK here is my advice.... A one year old survey for a boat worth $10k or less is probably still good enough.

You should be able to read the Survey Report and determine if the boat is in good shape or if the deficiencies are something you are willing to deal with. Also compare the survey with the boat and make sure all equipment listed is still there and working.

As mentioned earlier ask the owners to proivde proof of where the vessel was in the Sandy Huriane and if it was damged.
I have not seen the boat yet, planning on seeing it this weekend. The boat was in the dry for the past year and as per the owner no damage was sustained from the Sandy. Overall the boat seems ok for what I am looking for, but my main concern is with the findings on the deck. Again, as a newbie advice from CF is as good as its going to get since I really dont know that many (1) people that own a boat .
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Old 28-02-2013, 16:43   #7
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This boats definitely been on the "no maintenance plan" for some time... Any findings in Fair condition need to be replace or reworked
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Old 28-02-2013, 16:47   #8
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I would give it a pass. Too many dangerous conditions. He'll they didn't even run the motor... Big project. I'm assuming the owner didn't address any of this, if so forget it...
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Old 28-02-2013, 17:01   #9
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Re: marine survey advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ardi View Post
OVERALL CONDITION: “FAIR”
I'd be very cautious of any vessel a surveyor deemed "fair"!

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Old 28-02-2013, 17:08   #10
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Re: marine survey advice

so what should one expect from a $2500-3000 vessel?! confused
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Old 28-02-2013, 17:43   #11
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Re: marine survey advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ardi View Post
so what should one expect from a $2500-3000 vessel?! confused
Lots of fun on the water. Occasional unexpected repairs. Possibly needing to make the decision to scrap it if a major repair shows up.
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Old 28-02-2013, 17:46   #12
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Re: marine survey advice

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Lots of fun on the water. Occasional unexpected repairs. Possibly needing to make the decision to scrap it if a major repair shows up.
thats all im looking for this season! trying to find a suitable boat that will allow me to to do that with a limited budget
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Old 28-02-2013, 17:51   #13
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You posed a '85 hunter from NJ that looked to have potential the other day. You should investigate that.
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Old 28-02-2013, 18:07   #14
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Re: marine survey advice

Looks like a typical survey for a boat of that age. two things of possible import are: 1) possible deck core wetness or delamination in areas noted. 2) Does the keel need dropped, rebedded and refastened.
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