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Old 27-04-2007, 02:18   #31
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Originally Posted by eskfreedom
The broker said ...
How can you tel that a salesman is lying, or (at least) exaggerating his expertise?
His lips are moving.
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Old 27-04-2007, 10:49   #32
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Yea, no kidding Gord. I F'n hate salesmen with a passion. Luckly this broker is a preety good guy.
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Old 27-04-2007, 15:25   #33
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I met a frenchman who had put a couple of daggerboards in either side of his rudder. He said downwind, with both daggerboards down , it was impossible to get it to go anything but downwind, without lifting the daggerboards. It was impossible to get her to broach with the boards down.
This is much easier than many solutions. Perhaps it wilbecome more commom on cruising boats. A friend put such a board behind the rudder on his Alberg 37 and he said the improvement in control was huge.
Brent
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Old 27-04-2007, 19:17   #34
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eskfreedom,

I made my living for 40 years selling. Good salespeople become great salespeople by making and keeping relationships. I like to think I was a pretty good one.What I F'n hate with a passion is assholes that make general statements with their head up their ass. Guess I won't build a relationship with you. Good news is I am happily retired now, don't need to sell you anything, and frankly don't care any longer if your boat goes down wind or not!

Gord, you have always carried yourself with great decorum on this board and I read what you have to say and the detailed attachments as well. You disappointed me. Must have had a bad experience with a few salesmen.....if not you were really out of line. What did you do for a living.....I am sure that someone must have had a bad experience with someone in your profession.

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Old 27-04-2007, 19:43   #35
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It never ceases to amaze me, how you make a little comment and somebody just has to be offended. Well since you want to get your panties in a bundle. Here is a general stament for ya. YOU ARE A STUPID WANKER !!!
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Old 27-04-2007, 22:27   #36
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I am with Tom. I am a salesman, whats more I sell boats (just listed a Mapleleaf 48 for sale) it does get tiring to have people make stupid generalizations about brokers, sure is easy to blame us for what ever is not right after the purchase (buyers remorse), the thing that is so very interesting is how few people are willing to listen, they just can not get our of their own way no mater how much one tries to help. The fact is that no one has invented the perfect boat, and if they did it would only be perfect until the salt, sun and water made it not. Eskfreedom good for you, you bought a boat I sincerely hope that you realize that you will have to spend and keep spending because 92K is not allot for a 42' boat, so do not blame the broker/salesmen.

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Old 28-04-2007, 04:02   #37
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Q. What do you call a stupid, fat, bald, bearded guy, with his foot in his mouth?
A. GordMay


Quote:
Originally Posted by tomdidit
eskfreedom,
I made my living for 40 years selling. Good salespeople become great salespeople by making and keeping relationships ...
... Gord, you have always carried yourself with great decorum on this board and I read what you have to say and the detailed attachments as well. You disappointed me. Must have had a bad experience with a few salesmen.....if not you were really out of line. What did you do for a living.....I am sure that someone must have had a bad experience with someone in your profession.
Tom
My apologies to Tom & Jack, and all the many other great salesmen out there. My joking characterization of salesmen was in poor taste, and inaccurate.

The joke was intended to point out (to eskfreedom) that one whose vested interest is in selling a boat (broker), may not be the best source of factual information about that boat (factory finished). The broker works for the selling boat owner, not the purchaser. I’d expect a salesman to put the best possible face on any boat he represents (without actually lying).
However, unethical sales practices aren't entirely unheard of, and certainly not new ~ The classic consumer warning, "caveat emptor" (let the buyer beware) dates to ancient Rome.

FWIW:
* I spent 10 years as a “great” salesman & then branch manager for a major wholesale distribution firm (Wesco-Westinghouse).
* A major function of my current position is dispute resolution; in which I have to fairly balance the competing interests of several parties (including my employer). I almost never fully satisfy everone involved
*I’ve never had a bad experience with a salesman, misleading me, because I never rely exclusively on a salesman’s “pitch” for information. As Ronald Reagan said, “Trust, but verify”. Some might be surprised to hear that I believe in doing your own independent research.
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Old 28-04-2007, 08:43   #38
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Gord thanks for the apology. Some corrections, I work for buyers all of the time, we have a multiple listing system similar to real estate. The sales people who just focus on representing only what they have in house do not last. I also do not put a face on anything quite the contrary, full disclosure is what is required.

Jack
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Old 28-04-2007, 20:10   #39
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I've heard of a Wankel engine but what's a "Wanker?"

If I ever get to the point where I run out of expletives I'd like to have a few to spare. I learned what a "Numpty" is by reading this forum. Having lived in Washington for a little bit I do know what a "Hoser" is.

I once heard a Navy Boatswain's Mate while referring to his non running motor whaleboat tell his Division Officer that this f---i'n f---er's f---ed.
So, I always want to have at least another term in my vocabulary.

I truly believe there are some good salespersons out there just like their are probably some good IRS agents. Just be certain you know that a salesperson has the seller's interest at heart because that's who pays him/her and a salesperson in many cases doesn't make a dime unless he or she sells something. Did a little real estate sales myself. I thought I was honest but I'm certain sometimes I got a bad rap because I was "one of those."

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Old 29-04-2007, 04:45   #40
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Had the engine surveyed today. Things were pretty good concidering the age of the boat. The genny has an exhaust leak and there are gate valves on everything but other than that its in good shape. We will know for sure when we get the oil samples back.
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Old 29-04-2007, 04:59   #41
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O yea, sorry if I offended anybody. I think other than giving up our freedoms to feel safe. One of the main problmes with this country is everybody getting offended all the time. About stupid **** that has nothing to do with them. Then people have to run around worried their going to offend some poor sole. Come on people give me a break. Who cares. Is'nt that why we go sailing

Like Tyler Durton said....
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Old 29-04-2007, 07:26   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eskfreedom
Had the engine surveyed today. Things were pretty good concidering the age of the boat. The genny has an exhaust leak and there are gate valves on everything but other than that its in good shape. We will know for sure when we get the oil samples back.
Yo esk,

sounds like you are close to owning this boat.

I am a boatbuilder who has been involved with a major refit of a ML50, so have a couple of thoughts for you:

All gate valves should be replaced with proper seacocks (not ball valves). I can recommend the good GROCO ones.

If the hull is cored, it should be inspected to assure there are "hard spots" in the hull in the area of the seacocks, as this is a source of water entry on some ML's. If water is found between the two skins, reject the boat outright, and look for a boat with solid hull construction.

Some of these boats were prone to hull blistering. An adequate repair is extraordinarily expensive and doesn't last. The evidence of this problem diminishes the longer the boat is hauled out.

best, andy
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Old 29-04-2007, 12:28   #43
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Gord,

As always, you are a gentlemen. Thank you. Although I could use some of your descriptive adjectives to describe myself as well, I certainly don't think that stupid would be a description I would use of you. Studious, yes, stupid, no way.
Eskfreedom, although you pushed one of my hot buttons, and I certainly pushed one of yours, I still don't think you quite get it. That being said, I do owe you an apology. I hope that your boat passes survey and it sails beautifully on all points of sail....as they all should. Good luck.
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Old 29-04-2007, 12:31   #44
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Thanks Andy for the info. I dont know if the hull is cored or not. I talked to the owner yesterday. He said three years ago he pulled her out a ther were no blisters. He was worried about getting them so he stripped her down to the glass and put a new gelcoat on her. No kidding about the gate valves though. Rippin em all out first thing. If I but this boat. I was thinking about all the stuff she needs and I could'nt sleep a weenk last night. But Its a lot of boat with a good engine and genny for 90k.
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Old 29-04-2007, 12:35   #45
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