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Old 05-09-2012, 23:40   #301
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Re: Making Ex-Racer My Cruiser . . . Am I Mad ?

Just so you know we are still keeping on keeping on, see photo below of our newly commissioned fridge / freezer, built into the (all new) chart table...


Compare this to the nav station / chart table when I bought Insatiable...


We ripped the original chart table out, stripped back to the bare hull, and built it up again from scratch. The inside box is 5mm ply, e-glassed on both sides. We glassed an entire sheet before commencing cutting out the panels. The chart table is 9mm ply (with a doubler at the front to make it look more substantial), with carbon fibre laid on for good looks.

It provides roughly 1.5 cubic feet of freezer space and 3 cubic feet of fridge space.

The insulation is about 80mm of Spaceloft (R value = 10.3 per inch?), interspersed with 4 layers of foil. After much head scratching, I chose an Isotherm system based around a Danfoss BD50 compressor. Our volume is kinda at the bottom end of the DB50 / top end of the DB35.

We have been using it for a while, even though we hadn't finsihed the insulation and fitting the top & lids. Even so it hits minus 12 C (10 F) without any trouble. Of course, its not getting that temperature, but how much it needs to run to stay there that is the cincher.

It will get it's first proper workout since being fully finished over the next 3 days.
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Old 06-09-2012, 00:26   #302
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Re: Making Ex-Racer My Cruiser . . . Am I Mad ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Weyalan View Post
The insulation is about 80mm of Spaceloft (R value = 10.3 per inch?), interspersed with 4 layers of foil. After much head scratching, I chose an Isotherm system based around a Danfoss BD50 compressor. Our volume is kinda at the bottom end of the DB50 / top end of the DB35.
Spaceloft has a rating of R1.9 per inch cf standard plastic foam at R0.8

Good compressor choice, btw. Charging with a hydrocarbon R134a substitute should get you another 20% power saving; although some people don't like this refrigerant on boats due to flammability, any obscure leak should be detected by the (assumed fitted) standard leak detector.

Rob
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Old 06-09-2012, 10:14   #303

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Re: Making Ex-Racer My Cruiser . . . Am I Mad ?

"Charging with a hydrocarbon R134a substitute should get you another 20% power saving;"
Power saving as compared to what other gas?
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Old 06-09-2012, 13:09   #304
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Re: Making Ex-Racer My Cruiser . . . Am I Mad ?

G'Day Patrick and Lisa,

HEy, that looks a lot better than the last time we saw the installation. Nice job! Hope that it keeps the Jimmy Boag cold and doesn't deplete the batts too much.

I-2 and we are in Manly waiting to get the mast pulled for new radar, antennas and deck lights, etc. Also trying to do personal maintenance with Drs and dentists etc.

Big fun.

Hope all is well on the Derwent.

Cheers,

Jim
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Old 06-09-2012, 14:37   #305
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Re: Making Ex-Racer My Cruiser . . . Am I Mad ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by haiqu View Post
Spaceloft has a rating of R1.9 per inch cf standard plastic foam at R0.8

Good compressor choice, btw. Charging with a hydrocarbon R134a substitute should get you another 20% power saving; although some people don't like this refrigerant on boats due to flammability, any obscure leak should be detected by the (assumed fitted) standard leak detector.

Rob
Thank you for the feedback. We spent a lot of time and effort looking at different cold generating systems. Richard Kollman's book was insightful. In the end you pays yer money and takes yer chance. I suspect that if you choose to go down the 12V path, it doesn't actually matter all that much which brand you choose, so long as you size the cold plate (and compressor) correctly and put plenty of effort into ensuring good insulation. Time, I guess, will tell.

Not wishing to start an argument, but see below for spec sheet on Spaceloft
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Old 06-09-2012, 14:45   #306
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Re: Making Ex-Racer My Cruiser . . . Am I Mad ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
G'Day Patrick and Lisa,

HEy, that looks a lot better than the last time we saw the installation. Nice job! Hope that it keeps the Jimmy Boag cold and doesn't deplete the batts too much.

I-2 and we are in Manly waiting to get the mast pulled for new radar, antennas and deck lights, etc. Also trying to do personal maintenance with Drs and dentists etc.

Big fun.

Hope all is well on the Derwent.

Cheers,

Jim
Hi Jim & Ann,
The new fridge certainly keeps the J.B. cold... while we are getting used to the system, the big risk seems to bee freezing them, heh.

Glad to hear that you are alive and well and getting through the winter maintenance program.

We are heading doen the river this evening for our first trip away for about 3 months. Apart from the fridge project, we have put doors on 10 previously doorless lockers, rebuilt a storage locker (with carbon top, of course), added some additional (LED) lighting in the quarter berths, replaced all the rigging screws on the shrouds, replaced 4 winches, fitted lovely new Sony stereo speakers in the cockpit (very happy with this... the speakers are in custom made glassed timber boxes inside the hull, accessed via removable inspection ports) and generally kept the maintenance and refit program running.

Manny (Black Magic) and Steve (Lazy Bones) are currently abeam Pago Pago on Lazy Bones. Apparently it is hot and sunny with pleasant light breezes. Down here it is overcast and blowing 30 knots plus. We are jealous.
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Old 06-09-2012, 20:57   #307
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Re: Making Ex-Racer My Cruiser . . . Am I Mad ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
"Charging with a hydrocarbon R134a substitute should get you another 20% power saving;"
Power saving as compared to what other gas?
As compared to R134a. The substitute runs at lower pressure and also has a higher capability to remove heat due to smaller molecules. Thus the compressor runs for 20% less time over all on average (can be anywhere from 10-30% depending on the application).

Rob
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Old 06-09-2012, 21:04   #308
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Re: Making Ex-Racer My Cruiser . . . Am I Mad ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Weyalan View Post

Not wishing to start an argument, but see below for spec sheet on Spaceloft
Interestingly I looked this up and saw a chart exactly the same as the one you've posted on the left, but it contained the figures I quoted. Damned if I know what's going on there.

Here's the link: http://assets.selector.com/assets/do...data-sheet.pdf

I very much doubt the 10.8 figure, the best available home insulation batts are about R6 and much thicker than 1".

Edit: The key to this dilemma is that the "standard" for measuring R-values is different in Australia. In rough terms, Australia's R0.7 is equal to US rating of R4.0

The relative comparison to other materials on the chart still applies, Spaceloft is 2.4x more effective than styrene foam at the same thickness.

Rob
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Old 07-09-2012, 08:57   #309

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Re: Making Ex-Racer My Cruiser . . . Am I Mad ?

Oh, thanks Rob. I was confused by the apparently new standard buzzphrase "hydrocarbon R134a substitute" since those products apparently should be called "non-halogenated hydrocarbon (etc)" the key difference being that they are non-halogenated, while both R134a and the substitutes are bydrocarbons. I just read it as a redundant phrase.

A fast scan shows one of those non-halogenated hydrocarbon substitutes is our old friend propane. I'll be curious to see if the new gasses are just marketing, or really do have long-term advantages. And are approved for use here in the US.

Last month IIRC I was reading that R22 is only popular because it can be sold dirt cheap, and that because a byproduct of manufacturing is R23 which can be split off and sequestered to play the market with valuable carbon tax credits, or some similar scheme that's got nothing to do with what's best for a refrigerant gas. (I've probably gotten at least one important detail mangled in there, but that's what's going on.)

R441a seems to typify the replacements: Issues with flammability, and the need for a larger compressor, making it a new system installation, not a retrofit.
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Old 03-10-2012, 16:03   #310
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Re: Making Ex-Racer My Cruiser . . . Am I Mad ?

Another (small) milestone has been passed in the long road to making an ex-racer into a cruiser:

Last night we fitted the boom-bag and lazy jacks. It looks really smart (photos to follow at some stage). The (relatively new) mainsail has Rutgerson batt-cars, so we are quite hopeful that raising, and more importantly, dropping the mainsail will be significantly more manageable 2-up now.

Furling headsail: check
Fridge & freezer: check
Lazy-jack main system: check

Do we get our cruisers badge yet?

No? What do you mean "dodger required"?

Heh, a dodger will be next, probably.
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Old 04-10-2012, 15:19   #311
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Re: Making Ex-Racer My Cruiser . . . Am I Mad ?

G'Day Patrick,

Way to go, mate! Of course, to really be a cruiser ya gotta have a bow thruster, a bimini, a 100 hp engine, a gen set, an ice-maker and a washer/dryer. Perhaps next week?

Cheers,

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Old 07-01-2013, 14:37   #312
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Re: Making Ex-Racer My Cruiser . . . Am I Mad ?

Look at us... what fun!

30-35 knots, gusting to 45... 2 reefs and a jib, pointing like a Japanese Tour Guide....
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Old 07-01-2013, 14:53   #313
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pirate Re: Making Ex-Racer My Cruiser . . . Am I Mad ?

Raving Bludi Bonkers....

Great fun innit....
Afterwards...
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Old 07-01-2013, 15:55   #314
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Re: Making Ex-Racer My Cruiser . . . Am I Mad ?

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Raving Bludi Bonkers....

Great fun innit....
Afterwards...
It became great fun when we laid around that bloody great headland in the picture, bore away 15 degrees, cracked sheets and sent her!
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Old 07-01-2013, 17:08   #315
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Re: Making Ex-Racer My Cruiser . . . Am I Mad ?

heeled over a bit thar.
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