Made in the USA - Pricing

[steve.garlick]

Hi all,

The prices of US boats relative to the rest of the world and the Ozzie dollar are enticing me to abandon our plans to purchase a boat in the UK, and to buy a boat in the US. It messes with our cruising plans a bit but heh....

I'd appreciate comments on the Island Packet 38's versus the Pacific Seacraft 37's. We're after a boat that can navigate the canals of France as well as cross the Atlantic and Pacific.

How do these boat's compare for tankage, stowage and speed under sail?

Thanks for your comments,

Regards,

Steve Garlick

[Black Diamond]

I owned the IP45 for about 10 years. IP makes a solid boat and the draft is supportive of what you want to do. They are both (the IP and the PS) solid boats but I think you might find more room in the IP for living space as well as storage. The IP38 seems a larger boat on deck and the decks might also seem less crowded. The PS might do better in a following sea as the IP has that big flat stern but the full keel we had on our IP45 rode pretty well. I've not sailed the PS so I'm just speculating on its performance.

Beyond that you have the full keel and prop protection in the IP vs the modified keel of the PS 37.

My guess is the IP might cost less as well.

My $0.02.

Rick
Hylas 49-057 "Black Diamond"
Portsmouth, RI.

[boatman61]

The IP's are nice boats...

[steve.garlick]

How are the IP's for manoeuvrability with the full keel? Is there an issue with tacking, (I've heard that some needed to 'motor tack' the boat). What is their speed like compared with the PS? How about light wind performance.

I've always been wary of mainsail furlers, anyone have any negative experiences with the IP in-mast furling?

Thanks all

[Pau Hana Daz]

I haven't sailed the PS 37, so I can't give you a comparison, but as we just bought an IP38 - (technically we're currently buying - survey and sea trials are completed, the deal closes next monday) I can tell you a bit about the IP.

We looked at just about every type boat in this range and liked the IP the best. The IP38 is a really big boat inside (41.5' LOA) with tons of storage and nice tankage too (57 fuel, 157 water, 30 holding). The decks are wide and easy to move around, and the interior layout looks to be a perfect fit for the two of us and maybe the ocassional guest or two. That said, I've only sailed our boat during the sea trials, but I did spend three weeks crewing on another IP38 this fall with time offshore and in the AICW.

The IP38 has a full keel and is fairly heavy (21,500#) and has a really nice motion at sea. She doesn't tack quickly and likes a bit of a breeze, but I think the kind sea motion makes up for some possible light wind performance. My only real complaint about sailing the boat is that the slot between the staysail stay and the forestay seems a bit on the tight side when you want to tack a big headsail - I think we'll probably partially furl the headsail, tack, then unfurl just to not have to pull so much sail through the slot (or just sail longer legs and tack less ).

I've not seen any IP38's with in mast furling (though there are probably some out there). There is one for sale in Hilton Head with an in-boom furler.

[steve.garlick]

Thanks Daz,

Congratulations on your new boat! As they say, second best day!!. Did you get a sense for the price ranges for IP 38's (as opposed to listed prices on YachtWorld)?

Steve

[Hud3]

Never sailed an IP38, but owned an IP 380 for seven years and 16,000 nm of coastal, offshore and island-hopping.

Originally Posted by steve.garlick

How are the IP's for manoeuvrability with the full keel?

It's a bit of a challenge to back up in a marina with a cross wind. Doesn't quite turn in it's own length, but with "backing and filling" you can handle tight quarters.

Is there an issue with tacking, (I've heard that some needed to 'motor tack' the boat).

We had a 110% high-cut foresail. Once you learn the proper technique, it was easy to tack in all but very light air. I preferred the 110 to a larger genoa for offshore and sailing in the islands. We had an asymmetrical spinnaker for light air sailing in the Chesapeake Bay.

What is their speed like compared with the PS? How about light wind performance.

The boat excels in moderate to heavy sailing conditions from close reach to downwind. We were first in class and 7th overall in the 2004 Caribbean 1500, beating some larger fin-keel boats on elapsed time. Probably doesn't point quite as high as the PS37, but I don't know that for sure. Definitely slow sailing downwind in light air, but after we added the asym, we were always the first boat into the anchorage on our yacht club cruises in the Bay.

I've always been wary of mainsail furlers, anyone have any negative experiences with the IP in-mast furling?

I absolutely loved our inmast furling main. It made it a snap to adjust the sail without any assistance on an offshore night watch, for example. Never had a jam or any problems with it. It was so easy, that I never hesitated to make small adjustments to keep the helm perfectly balanced.

p.s. we never used all the storage space when we were living aboard. Never felt cramped or crowded.

[Black Diamond]

Most of the comments confirmed my thoughts on the space and liveaboard aspects. As I said, I had the 45 IP and a few more thoughts in response to what was said...

1. Backing up any full keel boat is going to be a challenge. I had my boat for 10 years and did not have a bow thruster. You just have to get to know the prop walk and the engine RPM's necessary. In a breeze or strong current, its just not going to happen. Go bow in. :-)

2. Tracking under sail is fine. In fact, if the sails are trimmed just so, you can take your hands off the wheel and let her just track to windward and it will embarrass you by picking u speed. There is a lot of "feel" in the rudder of an IP because its so big. You need to get used to that. Its huge.

3. One of the nicer things about the IP's is the self-tacking staysail. I believe the 38 was like my 45. It had the clubfoot and self-tacking setup. In a blow, you just reef the main and use the staysail and main and its fairly easy to keep up speed and be comfortable at the same time. We used to use the staysail and main combination all the time. Very nice. I'm sure the PS can be set up for this, but its the default on most IPs.

FWIW

Rick
Hylas 49-057 "Black Diamond"
Portsmouth, RI.

[Pau Hana Daz]

Originally Posted by steve.garlick

Thanks Daz,

Congratulations on your new boat! As they say, second best day!!. Did you get a sense for the price ranges for IP 38's (as opposed to listed prices on YachtWorld)?

Steve

Thanks Steve, and yes - I think I have a decent idea. There are 7 IP38's for sale on Yachtworld in the US right now (+2 FSBO that I know of). I've looked at and been aboard all but 2 of them during my search. I also have some info on recent sales (last couple of years).

If I can help you with any info on any of them, feel free to drop me an email: daz(dot)jensen(at)gmail(dot)com

[savoir]

Boats are expensive in UK so take a look at the Med which is cheaper. The Euro has fallen enough this year to almost bring prices in line with USA. You want a boat advertised as "tax unpaid". Euro buyers will be wary because they face a 20% or so tax slug directly after buying but you don't. Less competition.

There are lots of these in Croatia and some in Turkey. Ex charter is a strong possibility, so you need to be aware of that.