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Old 25-03-2010, 09:37   #16
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Does anything jump out at anyone?
Unless you took those pics yourself, do you know how old they are? It's not unknown for an owner to "recycle" the pictures he proudly took the day he acquired the vessel himself. Old pics are no better than old surveys, but as others have said, if it doesn't work out, selling the vessel shouldn't be too hard - you'll just have a lighter wallet by that point.

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Old 25-03-2010, 09:55   #17
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A few additional thoughts:

Read about any of the negatives in the survey and look a them yourself. Even if you know little, looking at water damaged wood for example should give you an idea if it's a minor cosmetic thing or a structural issue.

Get a feel for how liveable it is for you and guests. Lie down on every bunk, sit on the head, sit, fold out the table, stand in the galley and behind the wheel. Is it hard to maneuver around the wheel. If you like to swim - is it easy to get on and off the boat to and from the water?

Look for things a survey may have missed: does the anchor chain feed the way it should, do the storage space hatches really work or are they about to cave in when someone sits or sleeps on them (a problem with my boat).

I second all the posts regarding a survey you did not pay for, older photos and getting a surveyor on the sea trial. However, another thing you can easily do with some of your own time is get a feel for: "Is this a boat I want to spend time on?"
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Old 25-03-2010, 10:36   #18
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Pics don't mean much. You need to get dirty, with a flashlight, poking around in places that the photos don't show.
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Old 25-03-2010, 10:48   #19
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The advice is incredibly helpful. Thank you very much.

Can anyone tell me anything about this? Apelco Loran C
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Old 25-03-2010, 11:06   #20
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Can anyone tell me anything about this? Apelco Loran C
The title of this thread might give you some idea: Goodbye, Loran. Loran was state-of-the-art at one time in the last century, but the value of the unit today is, maybe, $0 to $25 . . . probably closer to $0.

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Old 25-03-2010, 11:35   #21
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For sea trial the main purpose is to operate everything that can't be operated on land and perhaps one or two that should be operated both in the water and on land. It's not really how well the boat sails since the day you sea trial may have poor wind. Make everything operate and look everyplace for leaks and things that don't seem right. If you have the printed survey try to see all the items the surveyor said they found. Maybe they fixed some things or maybe they did a poor job so you won't be able to tell.

I would also see if you can have the time to go over the boat with your purchased survey. Make a check list of things to check based on the survey. This way you won't forget.
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Old 25-03-2010, 11:44   #22
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I'd get a GPS and then sail the thing hard into the wind and then tack and sail hard into the wind again then check the actual tacking angle and show it to the Surveyor.
If it wont tack well it could be a problem with the boat etc. Or something you just need to be aware of. No use finding your boat is a dog to windward in 6 months.

being a dog to wind isnt necessarily a problem either... but could be if you are sailing in a bay often or club racing......



The other thing is sail the boat yourself, don't be put off by the others on board who can sail better etc, don't be intimidated by teheir experience, use it to help you. We all have bought first boats bvefore... and we would all have liked them to be the second boats we boat!


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Old 25-03-2010, 11:54   #23
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Nice placement of the helm. Keeps you near the dodger.

Be sure to get a haulout to look at the bottom. I didn't (once) and wound up owning a pox ridden bottom that needed a peel.
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Old 25-03-2010, 13:18   #24
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Can anyone tell me anything about this? Apelco Loran C
ACK!! KILL IT WITH FIRE!
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Old 25-03-2010, 13:54   #25
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Be sure to put that A4 through its paces...A lot or sea trials tend to be short once up the channel and back sort of affairs...and mostly under sail...5 min out the marina breakwater wont tell you much about an engines true health.
Be sure to tell the Broker you want to motor for 45 min to 1 hour straight non stop before the sea trial is even scheduled...any deficiencies with the motor will more then likely be corrected by the owner after hearing this....

I personally don't like the helm station..make sure your comfortable getting in and out of that companion way with something in you hand while under way in a seaway on a heal during your sea trial...Reverting back to a tiller is an option as well to open up that area if you end up not liking it either so not a complete deal breaker.

She looks in good shape and well loved.

Good luck
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Old 26-03-2010, 09:29   #26
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Thank you very much for your help. I printed some of the post to use as a checklist of sorts.

I guess I will use the Loran C as a dingy anchor.
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Old 26-03-2010, 10:35   #27
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I think you should worry less about the boat's feel under sail. After all, you will be learning. This is a solid production boat and will sail just fine to weather. In the beginning you'll be the weak link, not the boat

The two biggest things I think you should find out in the survey and sea trial are:

1. Is there any water intrusion in the deck or hull? A couple of minor spots are okay, but major intrusion and you should back out

2. How does the engine run? As a newbie you'll need to rely on this. Even as a veteran I wouldn't regularly want to be sailing a 28 foot boat into and out of the dock. So put the engine through its paces, run for at least 30 minutes at cruising speed and make sure it does not overheat, smoke too much, stop, etc.

Although it's a sailboat, most boat owners would tell you the biggest headache is a balky engine.

All the rest- well you'll learn as you go. You may love the steering station or hate it. Eventually you'll learn that you want something different- be it 1, 5, or 10 years down the road, and then you'll know what to look for.

Just don't ignore engine or hull/deck water saturation issues because then you'll learn to hate the boat.
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Old 27-03-2010, 06:04   #28
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If those are recent pics, it sure looks like it is well cared for. You got great advice - one other thing to be aware of is you will surprised just how hot a boat can get with no opening ports or any other type of vents

The first "big" boat my wife and I bought was a Pearson with the exact same non opening ports and the single opening forward hatch layout as the 28 your looking at - it was a sauna below, even at night. That said, we had a ball learning the ins and outs of coastal cruising and spending extended periods of time on board.

Needless to say, our next boat had 10 opening ports, 4 dorades and 2 opening hatches.....aaah sweet breezes!
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Old 27-03-2010, 08:46   #29
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Boat looks fine except that Atomic 4 gas engine is a dinosaur.

As others have noted, you definitely want a surveyor to accompany you on a "sea trial." Most surveyors will do this for a separate fee. Also, when the survey was done, was the boat hauled so that the surveyor could check the keel, rudder, prop and hull below the waterline?
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Old 03-04-2010, 23:00   #30
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Well, have the survey in hand, and there are a few troubling things. The main one is, "Higher than expected moisture readings in core material at chain plates, stanchion bases, at cockpit coamings, around bow cleat, car track, anchor bracket, anchor chain plate stand and two area where previous deck hardware had been removed".

The surveyor didn't list this as an immediate attention item, but it sounds bad to me. How do we find out the extent of the core damage if any? Is this a deal breaker? I'm sure it would be very costly to hire someone to repair and rebed all these fittings. It sounds like a very daunting task for me to attempt. How much should this effect our offer? The asking price was $11,500. We offered $9,500 which was accepted. The survey says there are ten items that need immediate attention. All of which we feel comfortable doing ourselves at a cost of about $1900. With these items and the deck moisture issues addressed the surveyor estimates the boats value at $11,000.
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