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Old 19-03-2004, 06:13   #31
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When we get into a storm I am going to heave to with the sea anchor z(yhat came with the boat) at 45- 50 degrees off the bow. This is what Lynn and Larry Pardey have used and have never suffered any damage. When they lied ahull they broached and suffered damage. This is explained in thier book and dvd "storm tatics". Larry said that there is very little strain on the equipment if the sea anchor and boat timed to be on the top of the wave at the same time. And as I understand this works well with about any boat.
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Old 19-03-2004, 19:01   #32
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For my fin keeled boat, I see two heavy weather options:

1. Heave-to.

2. Trail a drogue, preferably a Jordan Series Drogue, but it could also be 300-500 ft of rode with tires and weights at various lengths along the rode.

If heaving allows the boat into a beam on position relative to waves, it is time to switch to a drogue. The drogue is for the worst case scenario.

There is some good online information in the Drogue section at the bottom of this page:

http://cruisenews.net/db/pagetemplate.php?cat_id=17

(Note to self) Strengthen the aft mooring cleats to be strong enough to lift the boat with them!

Disclaimer: This strategy is based on research only. I am pretty cautious about the weather and have never experienced anything more than 10 or 12 foot waves.
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Old 20-03-2004, 08:11   #33
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A quick comment for Irwinsailor....

As much as I admire and respect what Lynn and Larry Pardey have to say about stroem tactics, it is important to understand that storm tactics need to vary with the boat and that the Pardeys sail very unusual boats and certainly one that is at the far end of the spectrum from your boat. There is a huge difference in the behavior of a 30 foot, extremely heavily built, purpose built offfshore cruiser and the behavior of 60 plus foot, production coastal cruiser like your Irwin.

Lying to a sea anchor the loads on your boat are enormous. The wave impacts on your bow are huge (visualize dropping an anchor in 20 foot breaking seas). To visualize the magnatude of the force of the wave action, I have seen boats that have had their stanchions bent nearly flat to the deck by the force of waves action coliding with them while lying to a sea anchor.

The biggest issue with lying to a sea anchor on a boat like your are the enormous loads imparted into the rudder at the boat is thrown backwards wave after wave. These loads increase dramatically when the boat lies at an angle to the wave train and when the boat is as large as yours in that loads increase geometrically with size.

Few production rudders, rudder posts and steering systems are designed to withstand the abuse implied lying to a sea anchor. Certainly your Irwin, with its comparatively short rudder post and small bearing surfaces, was never intended to withstand that kind of abuse.

I would suggest that perhaps the Dashew's thoughts on storm tactics would be more relevant to a boat of the size and engineering robustness of your boat.

Respectfully,
Jeff
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Old 20-03-2004, 16:06   #34
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I started by talking to Lynn Pardey she called Larry over I spent about 30 minutes talking about my boat , what to add to my new sail etc. He at no time told me that the tatics that he uses would not work on my boat. He talked about a slick that would protect the boat, that it is like parking the boat mid ocean. He told me about what he did with a 55' ketch etc. I am sure that this man knows what he is talking about. And I trust my boat. But we are not going into that, right? You will not change my mind and I don't think I will change your's. Next week when I see the man who made the changes from 1977 through 1983 I will ask him if he made internal changes to the hull. He built this boat to cruise anywhere in the world. And everyone that has seen our boat agrees that she is a world cruiser and that would include the broker that is a Captain who sailed around the world in a Valiant 40.
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Old 20-03-2004, 16:22   #35
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I am here for no other reason than to learn. Jeff would you please expand on the Dashew's? Is it a book?
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Old 21-03-2004, 02:19   #36
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Link to books by Steve & Linda Dashew:
http://www.setsail.com/ce/default.html

And some other good references:

Drag Devices - by Earl R. Hinz
(Published in Ocean Navigator magazine, Issue No. 70 - Copyright, 1995)
http://holoholo.org/caldwell/bj_96/oceannav.html

Heaving to (etc) - by George Day
http://boats.com/content/default_det...contentid=1284

Multihull Design Considerations for Seaworthiness - by John Shuttleworth
http://www.steamradio.com/JSYD/Articles/NESTalk.html

INVESTIGATION OF THE USE OF DROGUES TO IMPROVE THE SAFETY OF SAILING YACHTS
Coast Guard R&D
http://www.multihullboatbuilder.com/...oguereport.htm
http://www.acesails.com/drog_cg.htm


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Old 21-03-2004, 19:26   #37
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Thats some good stuff Gord. Thanks
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Old 21-03-2004, 21:14   #38
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Tactics

I have not been out in the big puddle to try this so it is just theory. As and ex surfer I probably have been on more big waves than most so I have some basis to form an opinion. I have been out in a 55 foot fishing boat in nasty weather. I know the Pardeys and others like to have the pointy end beam face the waves and if it works for them in their boat that is fine. For me I do not like the idea of the boat being partly side on to the waves and I do not like the idea of the boat being pushed backwards because it was not meant to go that way and it would put too much strain on the rudder. I would like to be square on to the waves pointy end first if the boat has sufficient speed or stern to the waves if that is not possible. Even if you agree with the Pardeys I would suggest you set your self up for other options. If my plan does not work then I will try something different. Some people have mentioned that the drogues hold the stern down but they can be fastened further forward so the boat hinges about them. I have been following the slick theory but can not see how that would stop a breaking wave from hitting the boat. My boat is not big enough to have breaking waves almost beam on. Michael Casling
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Old 30-09-2007, 01:49   #39
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i think it is horse for courses every boat design is going to react diffrently and it depents on the storm and location if you were on a lee coast you should loss less ground siting to a sea ancor than laying a hull
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Old 30-09-2007, 02:52   #40
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I would never lie ahull, to much chance of broaching if you where to encounter the wrong wave. A properly designed and constructed Jordan Series Drouge attached to some stout chainplates.
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Old 30-09-2007, 03:47   #41
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”Heavy Weather” ~ from the US Sailing Cruising Course
Heavy Weather

Online Sailing Lessons from USS:
US Sailing Lessons and Online Sailing School
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Old 30-09-2007, 15:37   #42
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A parachute for a cat can be less than the recommended 35% of LOA because they weigh less, right?
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Old 19-06-2009, 21:05   #43
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Originally Posted by Steve Rust View Post
I wonder if some of the problems experienced by these sailors were due to the line to the sea anchor being too short or positioned incorrectly. 300-500 feet is often recommended. The length has to be adjusted so that the anchor and boat are in the crests and troughs at the same time. The elasticity of the long nylon line also eases the load.

Nylon's 30 percent elasticity means that your 500 ft line is stretching up to 650 feet long. It's kind of hard to stay on the crest as the chute is. And no amount of elasticity reduces shock on your bow fittings in those conditions.
Better off understanding your boat and coping some other way.
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Old 19-06-2009, 21:41   #44
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Great discussion,
I was unfortunate to be in a bad blow. Started out averaging 60 knots then raged to 70s with long 80 knot gusts. The storm from start to finish was 15ish hours and not a cloud in the sky, We were in the Atlantic and it was an African sand storm (?). No way the boat could of lie ahull. It would not of been a tactic, but rather nothing left to do but hang on and die. I'm not saying we would of died but I truly doubt we would of made it. Pardeys don't have an engine, their storm tactics are influenced by this. In my storm, the engine saved the boat. Storm tactics I think is more art than science, different strokes for different folks. If you survive then it was a good tactic
Where is captain58sailing? Would like to hear his take.

Erika
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Old 20-06-2009, 04:34   #45
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I'm here, I just didn't get to this thread until just before I get off watch. I'll weigh in tomorrow.
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