Looking for feedback / input

[Peace_Seeker]

I am currently looking at 3 vessels. I am looking for bluewater capable. I would really appreciate some feedback from as many of you willing to do so. Please point out Pros and Cons of all 3 vessels. Thank you everyone that responds.

http://http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1978/Bombay-Clipper-31-2318630/Captains%27-Cove-Marina-Delta/Canada#.U7bSlfldUha

http://http://www.thunderbirdmarine.com/boat-info.php?ID=4062

http://http://www.pacificboatbrokers.com/details.asp?File_Number=SF3917

[JPA Cate]

Hi, there,

We're not to that stage yet. We'll need to know how you plan to use the boat. Maybe you could tell us a bit about that and your previous experience.

Ann

[Peace_Seeker]

I am not completely new to sailing but have been learning (everyday) all that I can via the internet, library, books from friends for the last 11 months. I have owned boats since the age of 20. Sport fishing boats mostly, a couple of yawls ( 20 and 26 feet ). I sailed as a young boy with a friend on a lake in Montana if I recall correctly for 32 days. We both made a handshake deal that we would sail that 16 footer everyday we were camping. We were very lucky as I recall the weather was perfect almost everyday. I always remembered how much control that little boat had over us and how we wanted to control it (Finally got it). I have been an avid fisherman since I was 7 or 8 (Thanks Dad). I have fished all over Canada in lakes, rivers, ponds, creeks and many many salmon trips to Campbell River. In the last 11 years I have been a Fishing Guide in Northern Manitoba Canada. If any of you have fished up here you know the weather can be very unpredictable and reefs are plentiful. I was in the fiberglass trade for many years in Vancouver and was at the same time a hobbiest Luthier. My goal is to sail throughout the inside straight of Vancouver and the island, then onto the west side of Vancouver island. Next adventure would be to sail the west coast to Panama then into the Caribbean. All of this After I take some courses in Vancouver and plenty of education in Charting, weather etc, and enough time sailing with professionals until I feel confident to go it alone. I feel quite lucky to have found this community and if I seem a little too forward at times I apologize. I am very much an adventurer and I get a bit excited about new adventures sometimes.
I hope that helps break the ice a little

[Ex-Calif]

The Kollmus Electric is a non-starter - I would not rely on electric power and solar to go off-shore.

Kerelia looks like a good choice - here is what would concern me. Engine access looks very tough, note the companionway doors in photo 9. I think they would be in the way most of the time unless shut. There isn't any canvas protection over the cockpit and no dodger that I can see. You could make/rig an awning for when you get there but what's the point as there is no cockpit table and the cockpit is small. Also if passage making in weather yuo have basically zero protection. Check out storage - there is a reason the clothes are hung on a rod in the berth...

Bombay Clipper - I like the cockpit table, dodger, companionway doors and engine access. The back end looks good - davits, propane storage etc. I hate all the 70's "porn movie" woodgrain formica and the gold fixtures. Weird there are no galley pictures? It is a small boat and there is no way you are getting dressed inside the (single) berth. You better be friendly and not shy with your shipmates. If you don't mind living "small" this is the one I would choose but this boat is gonna feel real small after a few weeks, is my guess.

If these were the only 3 boats in the world I would take the Clipper. YMMV

At a $30k price point you are going to compromise. I am not working on your budget limit so I won't comment further.

[tego]

Peacekeeper, I am a fan of the Bombay. I have cruised in one for about 6 weeks and had no problems or concerns in some really crappy weather. This vessel was built to cruise safely and comfortably for a couple or a singlehander. If you have a batch of kids, NO! It appears to be in well above average condition. Just make sure you get a good surveyor of your own choosing. Good luck, Ben

[roverhi]

The wooden boat is a non starter unless you like to do constant boat maintenance. The electric drive is a non starter unless you are capable of pulling a Pardey and not want to go anywhere under power. Electric drives just don't have the battery storage capacity to power more than a couple of hours. If you want to go further either have to camp out and wait for the solar panels, etc. to charge the batteries back up or use a generator. Using a generator defeats the whole purpose of going electric. Way better just to go with diesel propulsion in the first place. Also, bet a diesel is way more reliable than those pesky electrons.

The Endurance 35 is a well proven offshore design. The pilot house is great for voyaging in cooler climates though may prove a bit warm in the tropics. Would want to be sure you can get adequate ventilation in warm climates. Supposedly decent sailors in the heavy displacement type of yacht.

The Bombay Clipper looks like some power boaters idea of a sail boat. The line drawing suggests it's a motor sailer with the emphasis on motoring. Got a bunch of crap hanging off it that aren't compatible with water sailing">blue water sailing. The unsupported bowsprit for the anchor looks like something waiting to be torn off. If you are going to have a bowsprit, use it to add sail area. Carrying a dinghy in davits is nice for sheltered water sailing but a danger at sea. Not compatible with a self steering vane, too much weight hanging off the end, and a constant threat to be ripped off in bad weather.

[JPA Cate]

For a different point of view.....

I love the shape of the Herreshoff. I felt extremely concerned about the electric propulsion, though. However, the hull shape is lovely, the interior would work well at sea. It is just that the re-charging of the engine's batteries whilst at anchor issue does not seem to me to be well addressed. As to is being timber, that doesn't worry me so much. There are a lot of timber boats around that are wonderful. Yes, higher maintenance than GRP, but more "soul".

The Bombay Clipper did not attract me. But beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Way small fridge, but in BC, it's cool, so the opening outwards door probably would work OK.
Did not like the galley sink. To me, the construction did not look terribly good.

The Endurance, probably the most practical of the lot for the OP, based on his desires and proposed usage. Personally, to bring it up to aesthetic standards might be a lot of work.

Just my thoughts after considering the photos. Remember, this "take" is a very personal thing, and may not be a factor at all to the OP.

Ann

[Peace_Seeker]

A big thanks to everyone that has replied so far. I am learning so much from your comments. I must admit I am deeply in lust with the Herreshoff for its "SOUL" factor. There are so many things that attract me to this vessel. Maintenance and upkeep does not shy me away from Zazu but the electric
motor does pose some concerns. Would mounting an outboard be a practical choice? Is it possible?

[carstenb]

Actually, I would say none of them are a good blue water boat. For all the reasons mentioned by the others.

Additionally, you have no idea what is needed for bluewater. Outboardmotors are a non-event. Listen to what the others are saying - charging batteries is a must. Yes solar works, so does a windvand - but you'll end up using the engine at some point

Buy whichever one lights your torch, learn to sail, learn about ocean sailing, - then sell it and buy something that will do the job.

Sorry to be blunt - but's that my take on this

[Sailmonkey]

I'd do the hershoff myself, but go into it with the understanding that the electric would be replaced by diesel.

[Peace_Seeker]

Originally Posted by carstenb

Actually, I would say none of them are a good blue water boat. For all the reasons mentioned by the others.

Additionally, you have no idea what is needed for bluewater. Outboardmotors are a non-event. Listen to what the others are saying - charging batteries is a must. Yes solar works, so does a windvand - but you'll end up using the engine at some point

Buy whichever one lights your torch, learn to sail, learn about ocean sailing, - then sell it and buy something that will do the job.

Sorry to be blunt - but's that my take on this

Blunt is exactly what I am looking for. Thank you!!

[Terra Nova]

Originally Posted by Peace_Seeker

...Maintenance and upkeep does not shy me away from Zazu
...Would mounting an outboard be a practical choice? Is it possible?

Until you learn, for yourself, about stuff like this and what is wrong with your 3 choices, there is no purpose in shopping for a boat. Read the experiences of those who have gone before us.

[Cheechako]

Fiberglass over wood has proven to be fraught with problems. Not that there aren't some nice ones out there. The leaves out everything but the Bombay Clipper.

[Ex-Calif]

Originally Posted by Peace_Seeker

My goal is to sail throughout the inside straight of Vancouver and the island, then onto the west side of Vancouver island. Next adventure would be to sail the west coast to Panama then into the Caribbean.

You don't need the Queen Mary to do this - yes you can hit some bad weather but this is coastal hopping not the Southern Ocean.

I met a couple in SFO in like a 24 foot boat that had come down from the north.

Yes you need to know what you are doing but there is enough challenging weather and tides in the PNW that you can figure this out in a few months of sailing in your local area.

You are an experienced boater it seems and you should be able to tell a sound boat from a crap boat.

Good luck!

[ShipShape]

Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate

We're not to that stage yet. We'll need to know how you plan to use the boat.

EXCELLENT Ann, you nailed it - FIRST define the intended purpose of the vessel, THEN look at boats.

Are you going to be a bi-guy and cruise winters and go home to your worldly possessions every summer? Or are you going to give up being a dirt dweller and make the boat your full-time home? As a bi-guy you don't need so much of a boat - you'll do fine with one cooking pot, a few T-shirts and sandals, and the boat doesn't need to be bulletproof since it will (likely) be hauled during hurricane season, and losing it would not be devastating.

Is the Caribbean your intended cruising grounds? You will have additional considerations if you intend to cruise in both tropical and northern latitudes, even more to circumnavigate. The heater on that one boat would be nice while in the PNW ... can you tolerate tropical heat?

I am happily living in Florida and Texas without air conditioning, but in the summer inside my boat gets to mid-90s daily and frequently over 100 degrees, and occasionally it is too hot to sleep. People tell me you need to be tough or crazy to do that, I think you just need to be fit, thin and drink a LOT of water.

If you intend to live without air conditioning then water will be more of an issue for you than for the average cruiser. Not just for drinking, but also to wash the sweat off your body and clothes. Small boats tend to have small tanks; watermakers are expensive, need power to run, and physically require space. The smaller the boat the larger the problems caused by increased power requirements and loss of storage space.

If you require air conditioning, which you probably won't find common in boats for sale in your area, be aware it is expensive to buy and install, needs power to run, and physically requires a lot of room. The increased power requirement and loss of storage space are huge considerations for a small boat. Here I am assuming a permanently installed unit with ducting and vents, maybe a portable hatch-unit would be less worse.

Many tropical cruisers say refrigeration is their largest power draw, it is definitely mine BY FAR, so if you want a refrigerator, old boats will need their fridge/ice box insulation renewed. One summer a few years ago I tried ice in the ice box on my '84. Fortunately I could get block ice, but each block only lasted one day and barely got the box to 60 degrees. Not bad considering inside my boat was around 100 degrees every day, but it was inconvenient dealing with the water (from the ice), wet food, the daily trip for ice and more frequent shopping because I couldn't keep meat or milk more than a few days.

There is a little scratch on the surface of comfortable living, now a little about the boats.