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Old 07-01-2012, 18:08   #1
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Looking for Center Cockpit 40-50 ft Sloop or Cutter Rigged

Hi All, We are about 2 years from retirement and looking for suggestions on a Center Cockpit in the 40-50 ft range to do long range cruising with ocean crossing capabilities. We will buy used with a budget of up to 300K. I would like to spend less, but would pull the trigger on a turn key boat at 300K for the right boat and amenities. We have looked at Hylas 46, Norseman 447, Tayana 48, Morgan 40. We really liked the Hylas and Tayana.

What others do you suggest we move to our "short list" in narrowing down our search? I know there are many options, Swan, Oyster, Hallberg-Rasey, but not sure they fit in our budget. On the other hand there are boats like a Gulfstar 50 at the lower end of our budget (many mixed reviews on the GS 50).

Please help to enlighten me to others that we should consider. It will be my wife and myself 90 % of the time.

Thanks
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Old 07-01-2012, 18:41   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CabezonBD
Hi All, We are about 2 years from retirement and looking for suggestions on a Center Cockpit in the 40-50 ft range to do long range cruising with ocean crossing capabilities. We will buy used with a budget of up to 300K. I would like to spend less, but would pull the trigger on a turn key boat at 300K for the right boat and amenities. We have looked at Hylas 46, Norseman 447, Tayana 48, Morgan 40. We really liked the Hylas and Tayana.

What others do you suggest we move to our "short list" in narrowing down our search? I know there are many options, Swan, Oyster, Hallberg-Rasey, but not sure they fit in our budget. On the other hand there are boats like a Gulfstar 50 at the lower end of our budget (many mixed reviews on the GS 50).

Please help to enlighten me to others that we should consider. It will be my wife and myself 90 % of the time.

Thanks
Other options might be Caliber 47, Hylas 49, Passports (various models in both aft and cc versions). GS 50 can be good boats but are very old. Difference between H46 and T48 is stall shower on Tayana. There's a couple cool Moody 48's in Lauderdale currently. Also some Amel and Dashew (Deerfoot or Sundeer) designs fit your reqs. Good luck.
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Old 07-01-2012, 18:59   #3
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Re: Looking for Center Cockpit 40-50 ft Sloop or Cutter Rigged

Peterson 44
Brewer 44
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Old 07-01-2012, 20:16   #4
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Why the requirement for center cockpit? This limits you to the less desirable minority designs imho...

cheers,
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Old 07-01-2012, 20:57   #5
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Re: Looking for Center Cockpit 40-50 ft Sloop or Cutter Rigged

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Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
Why the requirement for center cockpit? This limits you to the less desirable minority designs imho...

cheers,
Nick.
Hi Nick,

For me, the reason for a center cockpit is because very few boats under 50' have a separte owner's cabin. Most aft cockpit designs up to the 40-45' range have the traditional main saloon and forward cabin with v-berths giving two cabins to choose for a bedroom.

At sea a v-berth is often not a comfortable place to sleep, plus it often ends up as a sail locker and general storage area so you have to move sails, spare sheets or whatever before you can go to sleep.

Most friends I know with aft cockpit boats end up sleeping in the main cabin which then requires you to slide out the berth or drop the table or some other mechanical contortions to make up the bed. With an aft cabin I have a full time bedroom with a full time bed with as much privacy as one can get in 42'.

There are a few boats in the 40-45' range with aft cockpit and a separate owner's cabin but then you are limiting your options again, just in a different way.

Of course once you get up to larger boats, say somewhere around 64' this isn't an issue.

So yes, going for a center cockpit limits your choices, some of them tend to look a bit fat and clunky and most aren't exaclty race boats but it was the compromise I decided to make.

Skip
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Old 07-01-2012, 21:00   #6
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Re: Looking for Center Cockpit 40-50 ft Sloop or Cutter Rigged

Two main reasons......1) They tend to have larger aft master staterooms. I have seen the master stateroom in the bow and it is no fun in big water. 2) I fish, I am very passionate about fishing and a center cockpit usually has a great after deck for fishing. I have fished from an aft cockpit, it is do able, but I look at the center cockpits with nice stern area platforms that are ideal to fight and land fish.


Now to be honest.....I have never sailed or fished a center cockpit, but I have the vision.

What are some of the down sides of a center cockpit? I would think that they have more windage, not sure what the other trade offs are though.
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Old 07-01-2012, 21:13   #7
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The trade offs are pretty big, I think you should try it first!

For starters you are way higher from the water so any movement gets amplified and so does seasickness etc.

Second is you are much more forward and thus get much more spray from the bow while underway. You need a very sturdy sprayhood

Third I think it's dangerous. You are high up with the lifelines sometimes even below you.

Fourth It's ugly but that is personal. I need to be close to the water to get a feel for how the boat is trimmed which I don't get with CC.

Fifth steering system is more complicated.

Sixth I hate aft staterooms. I hate staterooms too, cabins will do for me. I want this comfortable and practical, not to show off to visitors.

Only on very large yachts, I start to see CCs that look okay to me.

ciao!
Nick.
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Old 07-01-2012, 21:17   #8
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Re: Looking for Center Cockpit 40-50 ft Sloop or Cutter Rigged

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What are some of the down sides of a center cockpit? I would think that they have more windage, not sure what the other trade offs are though.
Well, this question is probably in the top ten most contentious issues on the forum. Comes in just after guns, anchors and ketch vs sloop.

Several previous threads have covered this in great detail, some facts, some opinion, some misinformation on both sides.

Generally CC: more windage, can be boxy looking especially shorter models, can be wetter at sea (not my experience), sitting higher over the water so better viz especially docking but some claim the higher position has more motion at sea. You are devoting the center, most comfortable at sea space on the boat to the cockpit and not your cabins. Easiest way to get a private double cabin in smaller boats. Most CC designs are not fast boats.

AC: more traditional look, more choices in the boats available: fast, heavy, full keel, fin keel, racer/cruiser, etc, etc, etc. Some claim the aft cockpit is drier at sea, more comfortable at sea.

I'm sure there are more but that is a pretty good short list I think.
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Old 07-01-2012, 21:47   #9
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Cambria 44 oops not a center cockpit but the space Is what you are looking at. Feals like a center cockpit design.
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Old 07-01-2012, 23:03   #10
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Re: Looking for Center Cockpit 40-50 ft Sloop or Cutter Rigged

Look at the Taswell 43 and 49. Liberty 45, Freedom 45 and for something a little different the Hans Christian 48. Bristol 43, 45, and 47. All of these are on the list for my next boat.

Take what you hear on this or any site with the grain of salt. You will always get a hand full of people who get on their soap box with very strong opinions even if they don't know what they are talking about. My last boat was a 45' center cockpit and I can't wait to get another one. For a liveaboard cruiser a center cockpit is a great choice. I will also tell you this I have never been told by a cruiser who had a roomy CC that they wish they had less space, BUT I have been told many times by those who didn't that they wish they had a "real" bed in which they did not have to climb over the other to get into.

Take your time and look at as many boats as you can, you will know her when you see her!
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Old 07-01-2012, 23:46   #11
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Re: Looking for Center Cockpit 40-50 ft Sloop or Cutter Rigged

I really like the looks of the Island Packet 445, 465, and 485's. Of course they may be sligtly out of your price range.
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Old 08-01-2012, 00:30   #12
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Re: Looking for Center Cockpit 40-50 ft Sloop or Cutter Rigged

what is the hylas worth in your part of the world?
here's one-
Hylas 45.5 CC 100k below brokers estimate | Trade Me
thats $176000 usd buy now or $118000 usd start bid
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Old 08-01-2012, 02:06   #13
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Re: Looking for Center Cockpit 40-50 ft Sloop or Cutter Rigged

Quote:
Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
Why the requirement for center cockpit? This limits you to the less desirable minority designs imho...

cheers,
Nick.
On the contrary, center cockpit boats are not "minority designs", certainly not over a certain size. Over 45 feet, aft cockpit quality (that is, non mass-produced) blue water cruising boats practically do not exist. Center cockpit boats are the rule in this segment. All HR, Passport, Contest, Oyster, Moody, Hylas over 45 feet made in the last 20 years are center cockpit, as far as I know. I think Swan made a few aft cockpit boats in this size, but most of theirs over 45 feet are center cockpit, too.

And for good reason. It is true that size is important here -- below 45 feet center cockpit works less and less well and below 40 feet I think center cockpit layouts don't work at all. But above 45 feet center cockpits are all good, IMHO, and this is reflected in the actual choices of buyers of high-end boats of this size.

This whole discussion is a little off topic. There are rich materials on it in the archives for anyone who wants to dive into it.
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Old 08-01-2012, 02:29   #14
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Re: Looking for Center Cockpit 40-50 ft Sloop or Cutter Rigged

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There's a couple cool Moody 48's in Lauderdale currently. . . .
Do you mean the Moody 49?

This would be way out of the OP's budget -- I've never seen one for sale at less than half a million dollars. Gorgeous boats, however.

Maybe the Moody 46? One from the 1990's could be had within the OP's budget. Also a nice boat but a little porkier and less performance than the later Dixon designs.
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Old 08-01-2012, 05:11   #15
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We have a Pearson 422 and love her to bits. There aren't many around but worth a look if you can find one. At their price point they are also one of the best bargains around.
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