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Old 20-04-2017, 12:24   #1
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Looking at the cost of buying a used monohull 34-37' PRICE SHOCK (from a newbie)

We have been boat shopping, and during the process, it was suggested we start looking for a slip. The price was shocking, to say the least. It put us right back at square one in developing the right budget for our needs. We quickly realized we weren't accounting for a lot of the cost to own a sailboat. I ended up doing some calculations to see what was a fit. Here are my results in the hope this helps another noobie.

Disclaimers

1) This is our first boat
2) I am not a boat buying expert, so some of these might be off. However, I do describe where I got the info
3) This is primarily for South Florida, and insurance is high
4) The boat size ranges we were looking at are 34'-39' monohull post-2000.
5) This does not include maintenance or repairs. I didn't add it here, but we are assuming a 5-10% of the original purchase price for yearly maintenance.
6) We are not going to liveaboard
7) yes we could probably get away with a smaller boat 27'-32'. We might have to.
8) No, we have not purchased yet so these numbers are rough


Why 34'-39'

Well, all the boats we have looked at in the 34-39' range have a lot of space and are supposedly easy to handle with two people. They will provide ample room for a weekend liveaboard with our large dog. Also, it has the potential for Gulf crossing to the Bahamas (yes I know people have done it in a rowboat).

In our current market South East Florida, a lot of the boats we see are Beneteau, Hunter, and Jeanneau. Occasionally we see a Catalina. I am sure a lot of newbies like me are attracted to owning these boats. So these numbers reflect current market for these brands.

Ignoring repairs and upgrades, we are trying to get a handle on how boat size and price affects things like slip fees and insurance.

Where did you get you boat insurance quotes?

I used Beneteau's at these sizes and price points to determine rough insurance quotes. These had a small deductible and covered the purchase price (agreed value). I used Geico. From what I understand different providers will have a range of prices. Also, I am first-time boat owner, so it is likely to be higher.

Where did you get the slip fees?

I called a lot of marinas from west palm to Stuart. The lowest I found was $15 and the highest was $29

Sales tax for purchase is included

INSURANCE IS MONTHLY ESTIMATES
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Old 20-04-2017, 15:50   #2
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Re: Looking at the cost of buying a used monohull 34-37' PRICE SHOCK (from a newbie)

That is a very impressive summary. It pays to be well informed of the cost going forward.

I noticed you are not living aboard. This will open up many price variations renting at a private dock

There are a few here:

Dock Search - Boat Docks for Rent or Sale, Slips, Dock Space Rental / Sales, Marina Rental
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Old 20-04-2017, 16:41   #3
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Re: Looking at the cost of buying a used monohull 34-37' PRICE SHOCK (from a newbie)

I assume not easy to get a boat loan for the boat older than 7 years old.
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Old 20-04-2017, 17:04   #4
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Re: Looking at the cost of buying a used monohull 34-37' PRICE SHOCK (from a newbie)

First - points to you for being heads-up and analytic about this.

Honestly - I would not go so much into debt for a boat, especially your first. And you will probably not find many lenders who will meet the expected terms.

My recommendation is to scrape together as much cash as possible, then set fire to it. Ok I'm kidding. If you can scrape together $X, see what sort of boat you can find for 70% to 80% of $X. The rest is your reserve for initial costs, etc. You can get some very nice boats 25' to 27' or so for around $20k.

The smaller boat will be more fun to sail and easier to handle. If you decide you love it all, then start planning for that big boat.
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Old 20-04-2017, 17:35   #5
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Re: Looking at the cost of buying a used monohull 34-37' PRICE SHOCK (from a newbie)

Lake-Effect made some very good points.

One thing you didn't mention (unless I missed it).....where will you be sailing? Day-sailing, locally, could be different than coastal cruising which could be different than hopping over to the Bahamas, etc., etc., etc.
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Old 20-04-2017, 18:01   #6
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Re: Looking at the cost of buying a used monohull 34-37' PRICE SHOCK (from a newbie)

Thanks for the awesome summary. We are the newest of newbies and your calculations have helped me quickly understand the cost of this hobby!
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Old 20-04-2017, 19:45   #7
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Re: Looking at the cost of buying a used monohull 34-37' PRICE SHOCK (from a newbie)

I know that all "rules of thumb" are suspect, but one that I've heard and, given the caveats below, seems to be pretty accurate is to assume that, in addition to purchasing costs, your boat will cost about $30 per foot per month.

Caveats:
- East Coast of US
- Not a live aboard
- Kept at a dock
- Do most maintenance projects yourself

It's very easy for it to be more than $30/ft/month, and you can get it lower than that, but you shouldn't count on it being any lower than that - especially when you're starting.

You'll figure out how to do more and more yourself, find a less expensive slip, and cheaper ways of doing things, but getting costs below $20/ft/month is probably unattainable for most.
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Old 21-04-2017, 08:37   #8
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Re: Looking at the cost of buying a used monohull 34-37' PRICE SHOCK (from a newbie)

Exciting to be in the market and in "play"!

First things first here's your boat:

http://m.sailboatlistings.com/view/63799

:-) (a little older than mentioned but turn key truly ready to go)

Second as far as numbers go we were paying 600/m at Stuart Loggerhead (on the dock close to the pool) and 550 behind a house in Pompano Beach.

I prefer the marina. The house works but awkward with the owner right there, good for longer term storage. Currently we are moored at Emerald Bay in the Bahamas at 900/m (ouch) but close to everything.

Insurance through BoatUS, around 1900/yr when in Stuart, went up to 2,800/yr when we moved her to Pompano. Needless to say she is "homeported" back in Stuart now.

Hope that helps! Being close to the Bahamas is awesome!
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Old 21-04-2017, 08:45   #9
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Re: Looking at the cost of buying a used monohull 34-37' PRICE SHOCK (from a newbie)

Quote:
Originally Posted by copperwood View Post
We have been boat shopping, and during the process, it was suggested we start looking for a slip. The price was shocking, to say the least. It put us right back at square one in developing the right budget for our needs. We quickly realized we weren't accounting for a lot of the cost to own a sailboat. I ended up doing some calculations to see what was a fit. Here are my results in the hope this helps another noobie.

Disclaimers

1) This is our first boat
2) I am not a boat buying expert, so some of these might be off. However, I do describe where I got the info
3) This is primarily for South Florida, and insurance is high
4) The boat size ranges we were looking at are 34'-39' monohull post-2000.
5) This does not include maintenance or repairs. I didn't add it here, but we are assuming a 5-10% of the original purchase price for yearly maintenance.
6) We are not going to liveaboard
7) yes we could probably get away with a smaller boat 27'-32'. We might have to.
8) No, we have not purchased yet so these numbers are rough


Why 34'-39'

Well, all the boats we have looked at in the 34-39' range have a lot of space and are supposedly easy to handle with two people. They will provide ample room for a weekend liveaboard with our large dog. Also, it has the potential for Gulf crossing to the Bahamas (yes I know people have done it in a rowboat).

In our current market South East Florida, a lot of the boats we see are Beneteau, Hunter, and Jeanneau. Occasionally we see a Catalina. I am sure a lot of newbies like me are attracted to owning these boats. So these numbers reflect current market for these brands.

Ignoring repairs and upgrades, we are trying to get a handle on how boat size and price affects things like slip fees and insurance.

Where did you get you boat insurance quotes?

I used Beneteau's at these sizes and price points to determine rough insurance quotes. These had a small deductible and covered the purchase price (agreed value). I used Geico. From what I understand different providers will have a range of prices. Also, I am first-time boat owner, so it is likely to be higher.

Where did you get the slip fees?

I called a lot of marinas from west palm to Stuart. The lowest I found was $15 and the highest was $29

Sales tax for purchase is included

INSURANCE IS MONTHLY ESTIMATES
Going through the same process on the West Coast in bay. Cheaper out here almost all the way around. Three of us charter every year for 2 weeks and I also belong to a top notch sailing club but the lure of ownership is always present. We decided to partner up and have been looking for 34 to 48 and have not quite found the right one. However, when you cut the costs two or three ways it makes a lot of sense.

I have been partners in aircraft for 30 years and minus the occasion glitch it makes a ton of sense as you actually end up going with your partners the majority of the time.

You might want to check on shared ownership as there are a number here in the bay area.

We have found some very nice 32 to 36 footers that are roomy and can sail single handed. That was a very nice spread sheeet.

Good luck!
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Old 21-04-2017, 09:10   #10
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Re: Looking at the cost of buying a used monohull 34-37' PRICE SHOCK (from a newbie)

Also on the West Coast (Washington) prices are cheaper. Someone noted ~$30 per foot per month and that seems pretty reasonable ballpark. I recently (December) jumped in and bought a 39ft Jeanneau SO. Wonderful boat. Anyway, my moorage is ~600 per month, including water, cable and internet. Insurance is ~$800 per year. Way less than Florida apparently.

Your decision on the loan and purchase is only a function of money, debt and desire. Like anything, cash is king. The more ya got to apply the more and better options you'll have. Our Jeanneau is 10 yo, and had no issue getting an 80% loan to purchase+tax. Great terms too! 3.75 fixed note, 20years.

Before jumping in and buying our own boat, my wife and I were part of a shared boat partnership with 2 others. We had a 34' C&C. This was for us a great way to go in that we discovered that indeed we wanted to be in the boating community. Price-wise, totally great. Being an older boat the cost of it was low, all expenses split in 3, and most maintenance done by 2 of us (the 3rd partner not so much).

We created a contract that stated initial duration, start up costs, monthly fees for moorage, insurance and saving for maintenance. The big cost item (bottom paint) we took special levy to cover. Very important clause to consider though is the exit from partnership.
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Old 21-04-2017, 09:11   #11
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Re: Looking at the cost of buying a used monohull 34-37' PRICE SHOCK (from a newbie)

Good point rmrsfo!

We shared a Hughes 40 with a friend back in the 90s. Worked GREAT. The rule was leave her better than you found her. The other cool thing was she always ended up somewhere different to fly into.

We traded about 3 months on/3 months off and watched each other's businesses.

The personalities MATTER in this situation. Must be easy going and fair minded with the understanding there are going to be burps (like showing up to no transmission or losing a RIB :-)

Anyway, there ya go, some more to chew on.
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Old 21-04-2017, 09:18   #12
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Re: Looking at the cost of buying a used monohull 34-37' PRICE SHOCK (from a newbie)

The bigger the boat the more expensive everything becomes. More importantly, single handing a big boat is harder than learning on something smaller. Not knowing your details I suggest you consider a small day sailor to learn and have fun on. There are many 14-20' boats out thereto choose from. Your learning will transfer well when you decide to upgrade to something larger. If you want the option of weekend sailing look for something in the 25-28' range with a galley and head. Probably triple the money for a day sailor but still relatively easy to learn on. I would urge you to avoid going over 28' until you have some significant experience. Happily starting small will avoid budget worries, a few thousand should get you on the water.
Until you have more sailing experience you will not be well positioned to shop or evaluate alternatives. Starting small keeps it simple.
If you still want to go large think about charters with a captain. That way you can get some feel for sailing while staying safe.
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Old 21-04-2017, 09:23   #13
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Re: Looking at the cost of buying a used monohull 34-37' PRICE SHOCK (from a newbie)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lake-Effect View Post
First - points to you for being heads-up and analytic about this.

Honestly - I would not go so much into debt for a boat, especially your first. ....

The smaller boat will be more fun to sail and easier to handle. If you decide you love it all, then start planning for that big boat.
Everyone has an opinion, and this opinion has value. But I do not agree.

Our 23' first boat showed us we can anchor out in storms and enjoy ourselves. It was fun to sail. Our 45' cutter is more fun and easier to sail. I sail her alone in squalls with no problems. I take her through locks single-handed with no problems.
My opinion is to opt for the larger boat and enjoy the luxury of a larger boat.

As for costs, our 45' cost about $450 a month for a slip, including power and water. So over $5,000 a year for a slip. Another $2,000 per year for haul-out, bottom paint, and other upgrades. It is easily possible to spend 5% to 10% of a boat's value on maintenance only if you call it "maintenance and upgrades".
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Old 21-04-2017, 10:02   #14
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Re: Looking at the cost of buying a used monohull 34-37' PRICE SHOCK (from a newbie)

Copperwood,

Welcome! I remember shopping for my first real sailboat. (It was 37 feet and I have never had anything smaller since) After 50k+ ocean miles on both woodies and plastic, let me give you a task to get you "ready" for boat ownership. Day, weekend or cruising.

Stand in front of your toilet. Take a $100 bill. Drop it in and flush it. Do this every single day until you reach your pain threshold (and then continue) or... until the moment your proposed first mate starts packing to leave you.

This is not a joke. Finances have been ruined by boats. Relationships have been ruined by boats. Lives have come crashing to a halt by boats.

For any divorce attorneys out there... just sit in an "arrival" port like La Paz, Papeete, Bahamas, etc and rake in the biz. I know as I have seen it.

I applaud you for your enthusiasm. Boating is just plain wonderful! But... really, really make sure oh passionate newbie that you are at least halfway not kidding yourself about the "realities".

It is a great dream to have Copperwood. Dream it and do it. Just make sure that your parachute is packed correctly before jumping off the cliff called "boating".

Cheers to your new adventure!
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Old 21-04-2017, 10:19   #15
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Re: Looking at the cost of buying a used monohull 34-37' PRICE SHOCK (from a newbie)

Prices and costs are shocking upon first entry. Don't worry, you'll adjust your mindset. We sometimes laugh at ourselves, when we say "wow, that is not as expensive as I thought". When we first started, the same relative numbers would have us peeling ourselves off of the floor.
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