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Old 23-05-2018, 19:21   #1
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Looking at a really nice boat, but those decks...

In my search for a liveaboard/ cruising boat, I've come across a real beauty. Impeccable designer, quality build ( for the late '70s) etc. This one might be a little big, but checks off all the boxes except for the teak decks. They look like Austin Powers teeth, except not that nice. There is clear evidence of water intrusion into the headliner etc.

The question is, on a boat of 42-46 ft in length, is it possible/practical to pull the teak up, fill all 7000 screw holes with epoxy, add two layers of bidirectional fabric in epoxy with a coat of non skidand sail on ? Or is it absolute necessary to pull decks up and recore etc. Not looking to cross the atlantic yet, but dont want to throw a lot of good money after bad.

Thanks for your insights.

Scott
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Old 23-05-2018, 19:34   #2
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Re: Looking at a really nice boat, but those decks...

Of course it's possible but the question is, is it practical cost effective?

If It was me the boat would have to be my dream boat and/or a super, super deal.

Remember this, and it is no joke, from someone who is dumb or crazy enough to have done it more than once, any major boat project will cost twice as much and take twice as long as your best, most conservative estimate.
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Old 23-05-2018, 19:44   #3
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Re: Looking at a really nice boat, but those decks...

Well, its an Alden design. So it's almost a dream boat for me. It's priced at less than 50% of better kept examples. The thing is I want a sailboat not an art piece. I have some but limited experience in this sort of stuff but have never dealt with cored decks. I just dont know if my couple of layers of cloth would work. Im looking to sail, not create a museum piece. I know, I know, how long is a piece of string.
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Old 23-05-2018, 23:18   #4
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Re: Looking at a really nice boat, but those decks...

Skipmac is too nice a guy to say it straight. It will cost you 4x as much as will be estimated and 4x as long if you do it yourself.

You are looking at a very nasty job if you have to pull all the teak up. Putty all the holes...sand...fiberglass..sand...gelcoat...sand.. .gelcoat...sand...etc.

Don't forget...you have to remove every piece of hardware on that deck. While you are doing that you should also re-bed all the mast to deck wires...re-bed all the cleats...re-bed all the stanchions...

Well, that is what i would do if i was ripping the whole teak deck off.

I have put 40k dollars into a 5k dollar boat and still not finished. But my boat was wooden (plywood) and i had to sand her down to bare ply and then fiberglass her to the gunnels. Then i had to rip off all the messed up fiberglass off the decks and wonky toe rails...pull loose cleats...and fiberglass all that..

Buy a damned good orbital, your sand paper off the internet, buy your resins by bulk...make early decision if you will use West System, Vinyl Ester, or other epoxy systems. Full face respirator...none of those cheap a$$ face masks with a rubber band....full body paint suits...and tons of gloves. You are talking one of the nastiest biological jobs when sanding epoxy..glassing...

The learning curve ain't that difficult...but how big your batch is and hot hot it can get...and how how much time you have before it "goes off"....well ...it is a learning process.

I wish you luck...be careful what you ask for...there is a real reason for that saying when it comes to boats.
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Old 23-05-2018, 23:35   #5
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Re: Looking at a really nice boat, but those decks...

I don't have teak on the boat I bought for a reason... you just posted it. Heard it was a massive job that will cost a bunch. Add it as well as the cost of your time onto the great price you're getting for the boat and see if it's still such a great price....
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Old 24-05-2018, 00:47   #6
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Re: Looking at a really nice boat, but those decks...

For more doses of reality, see the many comments in the threaded discussions you find via this link.

https://cse.google.com/cse?cx=011403...eck&gsc.page=1


I like Teak decks.
But I know my limits (time, money, focus) and would rather spend my resources on a boat that does not require a major project.
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Old 24-05-2018, 04:09   #7
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Re: Looking at a really nice boat, but those decks...

Also, to address specifically the cored decks. If these decks are indeed end grain balsa or plywood cored and the teak decks and bedding really trashed then 95% certain you will have significant moisture and rot in the core and the whole structure mostly delaminated.

To pull the teak and put a couple of layers of glass on top of that would be like putting a band aid on a compound fracture. The underlying problem will have to be addressed or you will have worse problems in the future.

There are a few reasons to justify a project of this magnitude. If it's a unique boat worth the restoration AND you have the love, desire and wherewithal to undertake the project that might be a reason. An amazing deal on a very high end boat that is a minimal project might be one. If you have limited funds for the purchase but ongoing income to finance the rebuild (this is more than repair), the time and skills to do the job and no interest or ability to go cruising immediately then that might be a justification.

Finally you have to ask yourself if you want to be a boat builder or a boater.
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Old 24-05-2018, 04:46   #8
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Re: Looking at a really nice boat, but those decks...

It really depends on the condition of the deck itself. Is it glass on both sides of a core or solid glass. Some of the Taiwanese boats had real nitemare decks under the teak. Some euro boats mostly solid glass with not much core. So the screws would leak thru solid glass a bit, no worries. On those boats you just need to fill the whole and put one layer of 10oz cloth over.
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Old 24-05-2018, 05:05   #9
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Re: Looking at a really nice boat, but those decks...

Quote:
Originally Posted by skipmac View Post
Remember this, and it is no joke, from someone who is dumb or crazy enough to have done it more than once, any major boat project will cost twice as much and take twice as long as your best, most conservative estimate.
You may have meant worst case estimate!!! AT least that is my experience.
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Old 24-05-2018, 05:30   #10
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Re: Looking at a really nice boat, but those decks...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Near2KR View Post
I have some but limited experience in this sort of stuff but have never dealt with cored decks. I just dont know if my couple of layers of cloth would work. Im looking to sail, not create a museum piece. I know, I know, how long is a piece of string.

The good news is you appear to know your limits.

Big issue is can you lay down smooth glass? If you are not very good at it, you can end up with a lumpy deck. I know you dont want a museum piece, but do you want to look at lumpy decks for the next X years?

Depending on how badly the core is damaged, you may need to do some core repairs.

If you can live with that, AND the price reflects many times the price of your time and material, go for it. Me? I would keep looking.
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Old 24-05-2018, 05:39   #11
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Re: Looking at a really nice boat, but those decks...

Thanks all for the very useful responses. Im going to take a closer look for soft spots that would indicate core rot as I think that would have the largest impact on the scale of the project.

I may just post the link to the Boats under 30k thread and move on
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Old 24-05-2018, 05:44   #12
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Re: Looking at a really nice boat, but those decks...

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You may have meant worst case estimate!!! AT least that is my experience.
Well I was thinking conservative as in, this job should take a week but I'll not be too optimistic and conservatively estimate two weeks.

Looking at it another way that may state the situation more correctly, I indeed meant the worst case scenario but that just sounds so negative.
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Old 24-05-2018, 05:48   #13
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Re: Looking at a really nice boat, but those decks...

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Originally Posted by Boatguy30 View Post
It really depends on the condition of the deck itself. Is it glass on both sides of a core or solid glass. Some of the Taiwanese boats had real nitemare decks under the teak.

It all depends on the boat you are looking at and how the deck was constructed. Really have not seen "solid glass" decks in larger cruising boats (yes in day sailors), typically its a cored sandwich (balsa, Airex, etc,) or glass over ply.


A wet deck can be repaired and is good experience in repairing boats (believe me I've done my fair share, building 1 boat and rebuilding many others), but why would you want to do it when there are so many boats out there to choose from w/o wet decks? The re-decking process isn't that hard (lots of people have done it), but its mostly a time consuming project.


Purchasing any boat you will get to experience working on "projects", but wouldn't go out of your way to work on someone else's neglect unless its a real classic (an they give it too you for free). That said, there are "free" boats and then there are "other free" boats. Don't get sucked into the "other free" boat category that they are more work than they are worth (unfortunately you learn this by experience).


Good luck in your boat purchase and take someone with you to look at them with some experience. This will give your romantic/optimistic notions of owning a boat a reality check before you purchase a real can of worms boat. There are too many boats out there, don't fall in love w/the first one you see!


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Old 24-05-2018, 06:18   #14
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Re: Looking at a really nice boat, but those decks...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Near2KR View Post
Thanks all for the very useful responses. Im going to take a closer look for soft spots that would indicate core rot as I think that would have the largest impact on the scale of the project.

I may just post the link to the Boats under 30k thread and move on
If it's an Alden and it's priced under $30k, then it probably has bigger problems than the teak decks.

If it's an Alden 44, I would almost be tempted. One of the most beautiful modern boats ever designed. The sheer, stern, and tumblehome make me swoon every time I see one.

And yes, 4x the time and money is about right. I started a deck refit 12 months ago, should be done in a week (of courses I've said that for a month now), and my initial estimate was that it would take me 3 months. And I did not have any water penetration or core issues.

There is a Pearson Ensign (22', tiny) that is having the deck recored at this yard. And one professional has been at it for three months.

Filling 7000 screw holes will be the easy part of the project. If you have to recore, the work will be exponentially greater. And if you have soft spots and stains on the headliner then you're in that territory. Figure that the area that you'll need to record is 100% greater than the actual soft spots. If it were me, and those were the original decks for a 70's boat, I'd pretty much expect to recore the entire deck.

Beyond the actual teak removal and recoreing, delaminating, and painting there's a HUGe amount of work. You'll have to take all the headliner down, every panel under the deck, to remove the deck hardware. You'll want all new fasteners, probably new backing plates. New deck fills, probably some new hardware. There will be things you discover along the way that need fixing and doing it then and there will make more sense while everything is opened up than doing it later. You'll reach a point where the level of effort and cost that you've invested compels you to go "all the way" with new gear and modifications...no point in cheaping out when you're at that level.
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Old 24-05-2018, 06:28   #15
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Re: Looking at a really nice boat, but those decks...

Lots of negative responses. I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss this boat. I know one couple who removed their teak decks (Jonmeri 40) while cruising the Pacific. And on SailLife (catch him on Youtube), he went as far as to also recore the foredeck following teak deck removal. It can be done.


Where you need to start is a determination as to the extent of repairs required. And that means a really good surveyor.


Old boats deserve some love and attention. Compared to what your money will get on a newer production boat, it may be worthwhile to at least investigate some more.


Good luck with your search, and remember, everything is negotiable.
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