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Old 12-05-2013, 13:21   #1
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Looking at a Hans Christian 43

Hello,

We just got back from looking at a beautiful HC 43. It has been on the hard for 5 years. I think the survey would need to include putting the boat in the water to see if she floats!

I would like any advice anyone has about this.

Thanks,

Luigi
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Old 12-05-2013, 13:29   #2
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Re: Looking at a Hans Christian 43

surveys are done out of water. if thru hulls and skin are solid she will float, no problem.
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Old 12-05-2013, 13:38   #3
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Re: Looking at a Hans Christian 43

Putting it back in the water would be a waste of time and money. You can figure out pretty much what it needs with out going to the trouble and expense to just sit there and start the engine. You don't even want to do that really. The engine should be brought back to life more slowly.
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Old 12-05-2013, 13:49   #4
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Re: Looking at a Hans Christian 43

You can start the engine on the hard if you have a source of water. Often a sales contract can include a clause that says the final purchase is "subject to sea trial."
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Old 12-05-2013, 14:48   #5
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Re: Looking at a Hans Christian 43

Luigi,

You haven't told us about your experience at all, forgive me if I get too basic, and this will be only a partial list.

In my opinion, ALL sales should be made contingent upon the vessel passing her sea trials; and insist on sailing it, as well, not just a 1/2 hour motor around the harbor.

Beyond that, after 5 years on the hard, many seals are likely to not function properly, so you're going to want to understand the situations where fuel and water go. If it has a "dripless" coupling, it probably shall have taken a "set" and need to be replaced.

The rig is 5 yrs. older. If total age on the rigging is 10 yrs. or more, replace all of it, and figure in those costs to the purchase price. The running rigging has been sitting out there, too, ageing. How old are the sails?

Look for "water tracks" where ports or hatches may have leaked.

Check the engine oil level, and condition; check its other fluid levels. Smell the ATF in the transmission for scorched smell, if it smells scorched, you may soon be replacing the tranny. Pay to have an engine oil analysis done. Look for signs of fuel leaks in the past, or signs of fuel leaks recently having been cleaned up. Find out whether the injectors have been serviced, and when. Check the fuel tanks for gelatinous "stuff", as if they didn't use biocide, you may need to have the fuel "polished", and the tanks cleaned. Enquire into cost of same. (I don't know how difficult it is in that boat to access them.)

The replacement of an engine is always a big hit to the wallet. Do NOT buy the boat without driving the boat around under its own power. Let your partner be on the helm while you go look at the engine while it is running. Are there leaks? How about oil under the engine? You're a detective, looking for what isn't there as well as understanding what you do see. I'd suggest taking a flashlight or a head lamp for seeing in all those dark spaces. Besides spider webs, you may see signs of leaks or other problems. ;-) Actually, if you have a friend who is marine diesel savvy, and it's not your strong suit, bring him or her along, too, for help.

If your surveyor doesn't do rigs, hire a rigger to survey the mast for you.

You would also want to know about the osmotic blister situation as some of the HC's had blister problems.

Well, that should give you some food for thought. I'm sure others more knowledgeable than myself will have useful input for you.

Ann
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Old 12-05-2013, 15:34   #6
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Re: Looking at a Hans Christian 43

A teak deck wants to be rinsed with salt water at least once a month. After five years on the hard, I'd be more concerned about whether the deck leaks.

A big question is going to be how well the boat was prepped for long-term storage.
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Old 12-05-2013, 17:07   #7
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Re: Looking at a Hans Christian 43

Hello all,

Thanks for the comments and input. I'm learning already. Some of you think I should not bother to put it in the water and others feel I need to sail it and motor in it.

The previous owner died so it probably was not well prepared for long term storage.

Luigi
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Old 12-05-2013, 17:53   #8
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Re: Looking at a Hans Christian 43

Having a sea trial and a diesel mechanic evaluate the engine under FULL load is a MUST. Don't let anyone convince you otherwise. Diesel engine and transmission repairs are very, very expensive.

Also, assume all pumps and seals will need to be replaced. We just went through all this... Every single pump self distructed within two months even though the survey only detected one faulty pump. Our boat had been on the hard for four years. BTW: Our turbo also self destructed (4000 euros)

Hans Christian is a nice boat.
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Old 12-05-2013, 18:28   #9
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Re: Looking at a Hans Christian 43

while this is all great advice and i agree with all of it, the real consideration is your appetite for the unknown and intentions.

if you want / expect to be sailing in a week, this is most likely the boat for you as 1 way or another there will things to fix and many of which will be a badly timed surprise.

if you have the time, patience and ability to tackle a host of problems with either your own time / hired help, you are likely in a good position to negotiate a great deal.

a few considerations... can you put it back on the hard after the sea trial? does the yard allow you to work on your own boat? how much time are you willing to invest in making her sea worthy? do you have the time / money to commit to restoring her to an acceptable (you own version of) level.

another thing you want to check is the electrical... things like gauges, gps, autopilot and a functioning windlass can really add up if they need to be replaced.

gl.

-steve
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Old 12-05-2013, 18:51   #10
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Re: Looking at a Hans Christian 43

I would have a surveyer ck the boat out of the water ! With a required sea trial and engine test. Remember you can always reduce your offer by the amounts needed to make her right ! Hans Christens are well made vessels, at least the ones Ive sailed and seen around! But theres a bunch of teak needing constance maintaince, Thats the reason we are not sailing one right now ! I could just not do to the ones we looked, what I normaly do to teak on my boats ! That is I paint the teak! (not the deck of course) and I have sworn off teak decks forever! But the boats are good sailers, and take heavy weather well ! and are very comfortable to live aboard. just my 2 cents
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Old 12-05-2013, 18:55   #11
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Re: Looking at a Hans Christian 43

Hello again,

The plan was to keep saving until the end of the year. Then, early next year, buy 'the boat' and get the heck out of here. Ideally we would be on the east coast where we could alternate between sailing the boat on the coast, Caribbean and South America while working on her. Then and Atlantic crossing would be in order.

This Hans coming along might put a wrinkle or two in the plan. It may also be a great opportunity to get a great boat at a good price.

I already know that I want an arch for solar and wind. I want to switch out the engine driven refrigeration for 12 volt. The SSB is receive only and I want 2 way with a Pactor modem. She needs an AIS. She need a dinghy and motor.

These are just the things I know.

Luigi
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Old 12-05-2013, 19:06   #12
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Re: Looking at a Hans Christian 43

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luigi3188 View Post
Hello again,

. It may also be a great opportunity to get a great boat at a good price.

I already know that I want an arch for solar and wind. I want to switch out the engine driven refrigeration for 12 volt. The SSB is receive only and I want 2 way with a Pactor modem. She needs an AIS. She need a dinghy and motor.

These are just the things I know.

Luigi

It sounds a bit premature to state it is a "great boat at a good price".

The cost of deck replacement, repair of water damage due to leaks, a new engine, sails and rigging plus a whole bunch of unknowns could dwarf the purchase price.

The radio and refrigeration should be the LEAST of your considerations now.
The punch line is there is way to little info on which to base an educated guess as to the viability of a boat left virtually abandoned for 5 years and if you are a novice at this, it's reality check time.
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Old 13-05-2013, 10:51   #13
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Re: Looking at a Hans Christian 43

I think Bash picked up on a very important issue with the teak decks. In case you don't already know this, if those decks were screwed down, each and every one of those plugged screw holes is a potential leak. Some teak decks are bonded down with adhesives, but most of the old ones are screwed. Ask a boatyard about cost of replacement, or ask Minaret on this forum via a PM, about it. About 30 yrs. ago, at Svenson's in Alameda, the cost estimate for a Westsail 44 teak deck replacement was in the neighborhood of 18,000 USD, IIRC.

Illusion wrote, "The radio and refrigeration should be the LEAST of your considerations now. The punch line is there is way too little info on which to base an educated guess as to the viability of a boat left virtually abandoned for 5 years and if you are a novice at this, it's reality check time." That may be really hard to take on board, but I couldn't agree more. There is such a preponderance of potentially HIGHLY expensive issues here. You have yet to tell us what your skills levels are, and that might help, in terms of meaningful advice.

I hope you don't believe anything the broker or seller tells you without good corroboration, or you could find yourself with a huge project and a potentially huge loss.

Ann
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Old 13-05-2013, 11:25   #14
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Re: Looking at a Hans Christian 43

I agree with those who have told you to make the sale subject to a sea trial and inspections of the engine and rigging. Spend the money.

If not, Kettlewell said, running the engine out of water is simple enough.

Also agree that electronics and refrigeration are of little importance.
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Old 13-05-2013, 11:40   #15
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Re: Looking at a Hans Christian 43

They are great boats and beautiful. Tough maintenance though. To save the cost of launch etc, do most of your survey where she sits. run the engine with a hose in the water strainer to see IF it runs and any major issues. If that goes well then consider launching her. I would imagine the prop shaft is corroded inside the stuffing box if it's been sitting that long with wet salt water in there on the SS shaft. So if you launch it may leak pretty bad... so make sure the bilge pump is working... it wont be a worry if that is working.
Beware of tanks on the Hans. They are either black iron or SS and in the bilge... possibly buried under the interior cabinetry! tough to change those out, and at that age, who knows their condition.
I'm not positive, but I think the Hans were built with plywood squares in the deck core to avoid water intrusion like the Passports were. You might try to clarify that. When I stripped the teak decks off my Han 38, none of the screw holes seeped any water... so I was lucky. They are built a lot better than your average Formosa/ CT etc....
IF the boat has those ply squares in there, even if a few have water intrusion... do you really care? The boats are way over built. The solid bronze Ibeam for the traveler on mine probably weighed 100 pounds! Recaulking and rescrewing a teak deck is expensive, but not as much as replacing or removing and painting etc.
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