LOA vs LWL

[Sailndive345]

Originally Posted by anjou

Your freezing?

Check out the weather reports, today parts of the uk were only 2 degs C warmer than the South Pole

Its so pretty though.

Well, I have a confession: I spend 20 days of each month on business in Minneapolis, MN - where I currently am The current temp is -14 C (7 F), and forecast to get even colder.

However, in Jacksonville, FL, where I spend the other ten days, all this week, the nighttime temps have been in the 20s (F)!... And, it feels very cold with all the humidity....

I think it would be wonderful to figure out a snowbird scheme where one can always be experiencing Summer....

Fair winds and stay warm!

Sailndive

[Weyalan]

Bear in mind, also, that even if you do have moderate bow and stern overhangs when the boat is in upright trim, as soon as you heel her over a little, your waterline length will increase

[Hudson Force]

I don't have a clear understanding of all this talk about the beauty of a design being related to tradition, sprits, overhangs, etc.
Function determined beauty in the 18th century and function should define beauty now. Shouldn't we be most pleased, as sailors, with what works? Function rules! 'take care and joy, Aythya crew

[paradix]

Originally Posted by CaptForce

I don't have a clear understanding of all this talk about the beauty of a design being related to tradition, sprits, overhangs, etc.
Function determined beauty in the 18th century and function should define beauty now. Shouldn't we be most pleased, as sailors, with what works? Function rules!

True, but don't overlook the fact that one of the principal functions of a pleasure vessel is the pleasure of the owners. This pleasure may be derived in many ways, from the thrill of efficient sailing (it works!) to the warmth of aesthetic beauty.

It has always been so - look at the beautiful carvings and figureheads on the ships of old - were they determined by practical function alone?

Aesthetic function, outside of practical function, is well recognised as an essential ingredient in successful design for human enrichment, for many centuries.

[Pappy Chris]

Originally Posted by CaptForce

I don't have a clear understanding of all this talk about the beauty of a design being related to tradition, sprits, overhangs, etc.
Function determined beauty in the 18th century and function should define beauty now. Shouldn't we be most pleased, as sailors, with what works? Function rules! 'take care and joy, Aythya crew

Ah yes, the age old argument of form vs function. My wife and I have this same argument all of the time. Maybe it's more a case of tradition vs. current form and function. So, I am a traditionalist. It worked then and still works now and its proven by time.

[blgklr]

Personally I only like a moderate bow overhang. For those of you with a long overhang stern counter how do you like the wave slap at anchor especially during the night?

[Hudson Force]

Originally Posted by paradix

.........Aesthetic function, outside of practical function, is well recognised as an essential ingredient in successful design for human enrichment, for many centuries.

Well said and true; however, I'm often distracted from this truth. Whenever someone mentions beauty in the eye of the beholder, I'm lost in that eye; the pigments of the iris, the musculature adjusting the lens, the array of photoreceptors on the retina.....probably my limitations.

Hey Pappy Chris! Isn't that "Form follows Function" instead of "Form vs. Function"? I just can't see them in opposition. 'take care and joy, Aythya crew

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by blgklr

Personally I only like a moderate bow overhang. For those of you with a long overhang stern counter how do you like the wave slap at anchor especially during the night?

I don't have all that much overhang on my scoop swim stern, but the wave slap is pretty loud. I have a hard time sleeping when things are going bang because to me those noises are suppose to be checked on.

[Maren]

Originally Posted by anjou

What we like and looks good isnt always whats practical.

Yes, but you'll note you didn't say anything about practicality in your original post.

As for the size issues, you only have a few options.

• Become comfortable with less space (tough since land based housing trends in the opposite direction)
• Go with a beamier boat in order get the most volume for unit length (ala power boat, barge, etc)
• Get a large boat and forgo any stays in a marina (good luck with the repair costs)
• Become independently wealthy

[Islandmike]

My clipper bow ketch is 46 foot overall, 40 foot on deck and 32 foot on the waterline. I love the look and happy with performance. For us she sails well, is solid and we love living on it.

[anjou]

Your paying for 14' you cant live in.

[Joli]

Wave slap is more a function of the rise and shape of the counter.

Originally Posted by blgklr

Personally I only like a moderate bow overhang. For those of you with a long overhang stern counter how do you like the wave slap at anchor especially during the night?

[bloodhunter]

Anjou,
As you can see from our avatar, Enchantress has relative long bow and stern overhangs. We bought her when we started considering our upcoming change from mostly Chesapeake Bay sailing to coastal, island and possible blue water cruising.
As you point out with LWL 8-10 feet less than LOD were are paying for length we don't have as living space. But she is quite roomy below nonetheless. In any case once we start cruising we'll mostly be on mooring or on the hook so the length differential won't really matter.
To reply to some comments, we've not had a problem with hobbyhorsing. She's proved a very capable sea boat and with her full keel and 25000 displacement she is not thrown around like some of the lightweight fin keel boats. She is meant to sail at about a 20-degree angle of heel which increases the waterline and her speed -- we've had her over 11 kt -- but if you don't like heeling a bit she is not the boat for you. Her overhangs seem to keep her dryer than boats with plumb bows and/or sterns.
Bash is absolutely right, even with a good ladder getting back on deck with a weight belt, let alone full scuba gear is a real chore. In fact I attach lines with shackles next to the ladder so I can take off my tanks and belt and fins, attach them to the lines and then haul them up after I'm on deck.
Finally, at the risk of sounding preachy, I can tell you from bitter experience that if you get something because it's practical or because it's a good deal, rather than because you like it, you will be sorry until you get rid of it and replace it with what you really like.

[anjou]

Boat design has evolved from experience and needs, so I guess its only natural to arrive at a certain shape but there are some huge variations in the ratios of LOA-LWL.
Some are just 3 feet and others are 15+.
So if 3' does the job, why waste more money and space.

Maybe its a 'horses for courses' thing. Does a good stable roomy live aboard hull make a good sailing boat?
Can you realy have the best of both worlds?

[Sailndive345]

Originally Posted by anjou

Boat design has evolved from experience and needs, so I guess its only natural to arrive at a certain shape but there are some huge variations in the ratios of LOA-LWL.
Some are just 3 feet and others are 15+.
So if 3' does the job, why waste more money and space.

Maybe its a 'horses for courses' thing. Does a good stable roomy live aboard hull make a good sailing boat?
Can you realy have the best of both worlds?

Anjou,

While it is true that there are large variations, this is as applied to boat designs for over fifty years. If one were to consider a narrower timeframe, say a particular decade (1960s), you find smaller range of variation among the different boats - one look, you can pretty easily spot a 60s boat, for example. I guess this is where evolution (sometimes improvement, other times the reverse depending on individual preference and/or perceived need) comes in.

Cheers!

Sailndive