Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 08-02-2018, 13:27   #16
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Home port: Ft Lauderdale, Florida
Boat: VIA 42, aluminium cutter
Posts: 120
Re: Liveaboard options - Bavaria 37 or Roberts 42 ketch

I have 2 replies - a long one, and a short one.
Short one first - you have apples and oranges - from what I know, and what you've said, the Roberts 42 wins hands down.
Long answer, prefaced by imho.
Again, apples and oranges...
The Bavaria and most modern boats that have bolt on keels have nice lines, have good layouts (charter boats excepted) and sail well. They may be easier to sell but you say you'll keep the boat for several years, so that shouldn't be an issue.
However, boats with bolt-on fin keels, many of which also have spade rudders are, imho, inshore /coastal boats. Many have been sailed cross oceans, yes, with conservative and experianced skippers and, if somebody hasn't whacked that Bavaria keel on a sand bar or two, those keelbolts should be fine.

Cracks or not, a dry bilge is just that - a dry bilge. I don't care what any surveyor says - it's my neck, not his. Were I to consider such a design, I would walk away unless at least 2 keel bolts are pulled and Xrayed.
Any obvious cracks or corrosion on either bolt? Again, I would walk but, if I still wanted the boat, I'd insist on pulling more - probably all. Even if my planned sailing was to be all inshore, I would want to know, with certainty, that those bolts were 100% trustworthy. Keels have come off, and not just on Bavarias.
The surveyor says the keel bolts are fine. Were they actually pulled and Xrayed? If not, he cannot actually know, can he?

You are in NZ where even short inshore passages can become challenging, so knowing those all bolts are good is even more important.

The Roberts 42 has a sturdy wineglass keel. Like the Bavaria, she will also be a pretty boat, have a good interior and will certainly go to windward. Perhaps not quite as well as a modern fin keel boat, but to windward she will go.
Her motion will be easier, her draft is better for your situation and I'd feel much more comfortable in her design if, and when, I banged that bar. She'll handle well under power, once you know what you are doing and at 42 vs 37 feet, she'll have more storage and a better carrying capacity for fuel, water, stores and spares etc.

Her ketch rig will be much easier to handle when the weather pipes up - just drop the main - easy peasy - and with the mizzen, she'll still go to windward.

At 13 years the Bavaria is far from a new boat. She may have a 13 year old engine, electronics, ancillary equipment and rig, and perhaps sails. And I'd want to know why she is up for sale after only 18 months.
The Roberts, at 35 years, has a new engine and has been upgraded. That's a plus. Both boats will need new rigging, if either is older than 7-10 years.

I would look very carefully at the maintence logs. I would not necessarily walk away from a boat without a proper maintence log, but it's a red flag, especially if there are claims that the boat has been "well maintained"

If both boats are in similar condition, for reasons stated, I would strongly lean towarfs the Roberts.
Whatever your decision, enjoy your new boat.
__________________

__________________
blueazimuth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2018, 13:59   #17
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Bellingham, WA
Boat: Bruce Roberts 44' Steel Mauritius
Posts: 589
Re: Liveaboard options - Bavaria 37 or Roberts 42 ketch

I learn a lot on this forum and defer to the experts but I have experienced both having spent some time as a charter captain and had the opportunity to sail on many types. Roberts are not a known entity but mine was exceptionally well built and some of the most seaworthy boats I've experienced have been Roberts either built professionally in good yards or by masters. I've never seen a GRP Roberts. I was surprised how well my 20 ton Mauritius sailed to windward in light air. I still don't understand why that is.
I like that the previous owner installed a new engine since that shows an investment in the boat that may reflect other attention to detail. Repowering is a big deal.
I don't like the crack issue. In my experience small problems may lead to other things.
I like solid full keel boats which is a matter of personal preference.
No matter what your choice you will, most likely, love (and hate sometimes) your boat. I would be interested in knowing the outcome.
Good luck and have fun.
__________________

__________________
Mithril Bham is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2018, 14:52   #18
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 23
Re: Liveaboard options - Bavaria 37 or Roberts 42 ketch

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Mason View Post
I hear the answers in your questions and statements. If you are getting your sailing chops, want to do extended local sailing, but not full on offshore, living aboard full-time, a question not answered is, if this is your first boat, what about resale? Production boats are a known quantity, a lot of the Roberts were factory hulls, finished by others.
Yes, it is my first yacht. I've had 3 powerboats (ending up with a Bayliner 4 berth cruiser before coming to NZ) in the past but have been bitten by the sailing bug now as I no longer feel the need to go hooning over the water at great speed! So, I am a relative novice when it comes to all things yachting - hence my questions here - and thanks to everyone for your input.
__________________
Deryck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2018, 15:04   #19
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 23
Re: Liveaboard options - Bavaria 37 or Roberts 42 ketch

Quote:
Originally Posted by blueazimuth View Post
I have 2 replies - a long one, and a short one.
Short one first - you have apples and oranges - from what I know, and what you've said, the Roberts 42 wins hands down.
Long answer, prefaced by imho.
Again, apples and oranges...
The Bavaria and most modern boats that have bolt on keels have nice lines, have good layouts (charter boats excepted) and sail well. They may be easier to sell but you say you'll keep the boat for several years, so that shouldn't be an issue.
However, boats with bolt-on fin keels, many of which also have spade rudders are, imho, inshore /coastal boats. Many have been sailed cross oceans, yes, with conservative and experianced skippers and, if somebody hasn't whacked that Bavaria keel on a sand bar or two, those keelbolts should be fine.

Cracks or not, a dry bilge is just that - a dry bilge. I don't care what any surveyor says - it's my neck, not his. Were I to consider such a design, I would walk away unless at least 2 keel bolts are pulled and Xrayed.
Any obvious cracks or corrosion on either bolt? Again, I would walk but, if I still wanted the boat, I'd insist on pulling more - probably all. Even if my planned sailing was to be all inshore, I would want to know, with certainty, that those bolts were 100% trustworthy. Keels have come off, and not just on Bavarias.
The surveyor says the keel bolts are fine. Were they actually pulled and Xrayed? If not, he cannot actually know, can he?

You are in NZ where even short inshore passages can become challenging, so knowing those all bolts are good is even more important.

The Roberts 42 has a sturdy wineglass keel. Like the Bavaria, she will also be a pretty boat, have a good interior and will certainly go to windward. Perhaps not quite as well as a modern fin keel boat, but to windward she will go.
Her motion will be easier, her draft is better for your situation and I'd feel much more comfortable in her design if, and when, I banged that bar. She'll handle well under power, once you know what you are doing and at 42 vs 37 feet, she'll have more storage and a better carrying capacity for fuel, water, stores and spares etc.

Her ketch rig will be much easier to handle when the weather pipes up - just drop the main - easy peasy - and with the mizzen, she'll still go to windward.

At 13 years the Bavaria is far from a new boat. She may have a 13 year old engine, electronics, ancillary equipment and rig, and perhaps sails. And I'd want to know why she is up for sale after only 18 months.
The Roberts, at 35 years, has a new engine and has been upgraded. That's a plus. Both boats will need new rigging, if either is older than 7-10 years.

I would look very carefully at the maintence logs. I would not necessarily walk away from a boat without a proper maintence log, but it's a red flag, especially if there are claims that the boat has been "well maintained"

If both boats are in similar condition, for reasons stated, I would strongly lean towarfs the Roberts.
Whatever your decision, enjoy your new boat.
Mmmm! You're echoing all my doubts about the Bavaria!

There's a sandbar that you have to cross to enter the marina I want to be based at and there will be tight restrictions on when you can enter/leave either side of high tide. Sadly, most of the boats that have been on the market in the last year or so that have fitted my requirements have had deeper drafts than would be the ideal for this situation.

The Roberts has been very well maintained and upgraded of that there's no doubt - you only have to look at it to see that - even without delving into the maintenance log. It's pristine clean everywhere and a very tempting boat.

You mention that, for greater peace of mind, the keel should be pulled to inspect the bolts. How easy is this to do? And, what then springs to my mind is, how practical (and expensive) would it be to change the keel to a shallower draft one? Is this realistic and a straight swap with bolt holes lining up - assuming the new one is a Bavaria approved keel? I know they do a shorter keel as there is a Bavaria 36 berthed at the marina and the owner told me the draft is 1.65m as opposed to 1.95m on the fin keel. Would changing the keel mean that other items have to be changed to keep the boat properly balanced? (That may be a stupid question for any number of reasons but, hey, I'm a newbie to sailing so bear with me!!!!).
__________________
Deryck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2018, 15:09   #20
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 23
Re: Liveaboard options - Bavaria 37 or Roberts 42 ketch

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterSz View Post
Hi Deryck
I’ve just purchased a Beneteau 411 in Picton. So my choice would be definitely the Bavaria. I made my decision after a year research, seen lots of boats and Imho production boats are great for live aboard. You might can find better boats with better performance but if you look the price/age/performance/comfort package It’s hard to beat BeneJeanBav imho.
Would that be Sabbatical that was for sale at the end of last year? If so, I really liked that boat and it was on my short list for consideration but I had to put the search on hold as the house didn't sell as quickly as I thought it would! So, my misfortune may be your good luck!

How are you finding her after a few months of sailing? I seem to recall that the draft was 1.95m. Have you ever sailed over to Mana with her and, if so did you find any problems getting over the sandbar?
__________________
Deryck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2018, 16:22   #21
Registered User

Join Date: May 2015
Location: Whangarei
Boat: Bavaria 38 Cruiser, 12meters, 2004
Posts: 138
Re: Liveaboard options - Bavaria 37 or Roberts 42 ketch

Hi Deryck.

I don't know anything about the Roberts, but having owned a Bav 38 (2004) since 2009 have been very pleased with it. It has good gear onboard, and is a pleasure to sail, great manouverabilty, and comfortable accom. Does the 37 have inmast furling? The keel thing has put a lot of people off no doubt, and any crack on that keel joint warrants closer inspection, (on any fin keeled boat). I would put a lot of effort into finding the history of the boat. When we were looking there was another 38 that looked great, but the (honest) broker informed us that it had been seriously damaged in a bar crossing gone wrong. (Whakatane from memory) The thing is it had been expertly repaired fibreglass wise, but the wiring hadn't been redone, and consequently may have given trouble to the next owner and not been such a good deal despite the significant price reduction. Ours is a very dry boat, can pound a bit to windward but only if pushing too hard. We have the 2 cabin layout, and it was the roominess in the saloon that really sold my wife on it, but we have to admit at times we missed a third cabin guest wise. Have the sails been replaced? We still have our original main Elvström Sobstad, but had to replace the headsail recently. I've really had no major issues so far. Replaced a fridge compressor unit. New Batteries. Added a solar panel. New Alternator. Regalve chain and anchor. Just the usual. At present replacing VHF, all the rubber went on the mike curlycords and the model is obsolete. Would love to try the new Anyway good luck with your new adventure. Hope to see you in the soup one day up in the BOI.
__________________
Kerry1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2018, 16:28   #22
Registered User
 
Fore and Aft's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Gympie
Boat: Volkscruiser
Posts: 154
Re: Liveaboard options - Bavaria 37 or Roberts 42 ketch

Sounds like do you want a VW Kombi or a Ferrari?
Here in Oz the Bavaria would sell easier than the Roberts. Maybe that is a point to consider. Mainly because you might not like this whole sailing thing and want to get rid of the boat after a while.
The number of boats that I survey that change owners in less than 12 months is unreal.
Cheers
__________________
Fore and Aft is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2018, 16:44   #23
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 23
Re: Liveaboard options - Bavaria 37 or Roberts 42 ketch

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fore and Aft View Post
Sounds like do you want a VW Kombi or a Ferrari?
Here in Oz the Bavaria would sell easier than the Roberts. Maybe that is a point to consider. Mainly because you might not like this whole sailing thing and want to get rid of the boat after a while.
The number of boats that I survey that change owners in less than 12 months is unreal.
Cheers
Well, Ferraris and Combis both have their virtues! I know it might look (to more experienced sailors) like I don't know what I'm looking for but I've given this serious thought for several years before arriving at the conclusion that I should consider all options rather than just focus solely on one style of yacht. But, of course, that presents its own issues as I now find!

The Roberts has been on the market for at least 5 months - perhaps longer - so, yes, you could be right about the resale situation. Having said that, there are newer production boats that have been on the market for similar lengths of time here. I think that's more a symptom of the general economic situation here in NZ as much as anything. But it would be really nice to get this decision right first time, rather than find that I buy something that I end up thinking isn't right for me, for whatever reason.
__________________
Deryck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2018, 17:02   #24
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 23
Re: Liveaboard options - Bavaria 37 or Roberts 42 ketch

Hi Kerry1.

Good to hear from another satisfied Bavaria owner. The cracking is something that I do need to have thoroughly investigated and reported on before making any decision one way or the other.

The owner has been quite open about the history of the boat but, being a bit of a natural sceptic(!), I always take an owner's comments with a pinch of salt - particularly when I'm the potential buyer!

As for the sails, the owner did say that they're the originals so I think I'd be looking for a decent discount on the asking price to reflect the cost of replacing them soon as that will no doubt be a cost I'll have to bear sometime soon given that they're now 14/15 years old. I'm told that there's a place in Auckland which sells secondhand sails which have been replaced by serious racers but still have plenty life left in them for less serious cruising. Do you know anything about this and whether it's worth considering?
__________________
Deryck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2018, 23:12   #25
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: All over
Posts: 5
Re: Liveaboard options - Bavaria 37 or Roberts 42 ketch

Bavaria - nice boats - far cheaper in Europe - get one sail it back. Ozz is 40% more expensive. NZ is probably the same. Extreme option on the keel is get it dropped - check the bolts and the keel join area. The owner of the Ross 30 I skippered in NZ sailed it over muscle farm nets - causing a crack in the keel. (I wasnt skippering at the time). Cost him over NZ10k to get it fixed. He never acknowledged trying to tear the keel off it but one of the girls crewing on the boat at the time told me. So don't believe the owner and dont believe any "friendly surveyors". The crack may also because of the keel bolts becoming un torqued due to general wear and tear and all they need is re tensioning. Difficult to say and I am NOT a surveyor.
__________________
waswe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2018, 23:50   #26
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Sweden
Boat: 73´ULDB custom ketch
Posts: 72
Re: Liveaboard options - Bavaria 37 or Roberts 42 ketch

If I would see stress cracks around the keel, however minor I would walk away.
__________________
MartinR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2018, 14:15   #27
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: All over
Posts: 5
Re: Liveaboard options - Bavaria 37 or Roberts 42 ketch

Here is a video :

__________________

__________________
waswe is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
bavaria, ketch, liveaboard

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Roberts 36 Ketch Boxertwinjeff Monohull Sailboats 16 12-12-2015 14:39
165 hp cummins for 50ft roberts ketch nzmal Engines and Propulsion Systems 23 09-09-2015 19:30
For Sale: 2007 Roberts 434 Steel Offshore Ketch Iskoteo Classifieds Archive 0 10-07-2013 11:33
Bruce Roberts 43 Maurtius Ketch in GRP squashmikeyp25 Monohull Sailboats 14 02-05-2011 10:41
Bruce Roberts Mauritius 43 - Ketch to Cutter kennykroot Construction, Maintenance & Refit 4 08-07-2007 22:28



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 20:21.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.