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Old 28-06-2007, 23:26   #1
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Lets play a game - order list (quality)

Hi,

It's my first. I've been trying to read as much as possible and I'm curious what others consider when they evaluate the quality of boats? Leaving the boat design out of it, since certain boats will be focused more towards island hopping, coastal cruising or blue water cruising and liveaboards. What is left to judge the quality of the boat?

Quality of contruction?
Quality of workmanship?
Quality of components?

if so, how would you rate these boats? From best (top) to worst (bottom)

Oyster
Najad
Malo
Hallber Rassy
Caliber
Amel
X-Yachts
Valiant
Tartan
Hylas
Wauquiez
Jeanneau
Sabre
Island Packet
Tayana
Saga
Pacific Seacraft
Etap
Hanse
Beneteau
Catalina
Bavaria
Hunter
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Old 29-06-2007, 00:12   #2
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It is, in my opinion, utterly unrealistic for any one person to be able to give any sort of rating to all of the above. To answer the question accurately for any one boat, one needs to have inspected it extremely carefully. inside and outside and out of the water. Who here can say that they have done so on not 1 but well over 20 different marques?
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Old 29-06-2007, 01:03   #3
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Hi and Welcome TD CT.
Price would be the closest answer to your problem. Although not entirley accurate, it would still be more accurate than the way you are currently asking the question. IMO I think it is fair to say that price is goign to be a close representative to quality and workmanship. The rest is answered by intended design. What was the initial intention of the designer. Most designers are happy to answer that question when asked.
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Old 29-06-2007, 03:41   #4
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If you really wanted to make a science project out of it you could go to a couple of the biggest on-line boat marts, download the data on all the boats and then make a pivot table where you could do some statistical analysis.

You could find out things like:

Qty on the market - tells you the "volume" of boats out there.
Price vs. length vs. year - tells you "value" for money
If you captured the regional data you could then look at the boats by region and see if there are regional influences.

Your original request, while worthy, probably gets diluted when you are talking used boats. The older the boat, the bigger the impact that maintenance and refit quality become.

If I were seriously interested in a bigger boat at this time, I would narrow down the usage of the boat, make a list of must haves, need to haves, and nice to haves and then shortlist the boats. These would be things inherent to the design like LOA, cockpit and cabin layout, tankages, rigging configuration, keel configration, engine power, etc.

Then I would do as I suggest above but only on about 6-8 models.
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Old 29-06-2007, 07:27   #5
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It is, in my opinion, utterly unrealistic for any one person to be able to give any sort of rating to all of the above
We get about a dozen people a month that want to play this game. We grow to expect it, but it does not mean we are being unhelpful because we don't have the answers.

Anyone that could have written "the list of boats" would have done so by now and you could bet your life we would have a copy here and we would promptly reply to you with the link to it and send you off on your way to sailing into the sunset. It's the holy grail of boat buyers. We don't have it.

It's really cool to think you can make a check list and pick the perfect boat. The idea sounds better than it works out. When you start to compare the boats on your list you can do it by price and suddenly find about 3 or more groups of boats. You could refine that list down more. At the end the rating based on "brand" may tell you nothing about any boat you might actually purchase. The brand won't tell you much at all about a used boat other than it won't be better than it used to be. I would not assume all boats from any one vendor are all equal because over the years it's not the case.

I think most people try to match the money they have to spend against the value they receive. It's pretty much 100% subjective. The ratings anyone here might make really won't be important to your actual purchase decision. You need to find out what you want, what you need, and what you can afford. It also helps if you know a lot about sailing and have a lot of experience because it really matters. So from that point of view the details you need to really understand the most are more about you than a list of boats using numerical ratings. You don't need to rate all the boats in the world because you only really want only one. With so many boats to pick from the only important item is you. You are more important than the boat.

FWIW, you left out a lot of boats in your list. There would easily be another 100 just on the short list. Also note that on any single day not all of them are available for sale. You could compute the perfect boat and find it's been sold. If you get the list buy yours first, then post the list here.
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Old 29-06-2007, 14:12   #6
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Aloha TD CT,
Hard to do. Takes a lot of time. Are we talking new boats or boats 10 years old? My boat is 35 years old plus and everything that came with it has been rebuilt or replaced except the hull so would I recommend a Cascade? If you want a strong hull, yes. Everything else is done or redone by me or previous owners.
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Old 29-06-2007, 18:33   #7
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Ok, I'll play.

Challenger 32
Everything else


absestos suit - check
halon extinguisher - check
mean attitude - check
bottle of rum in the bar - check

Flame away!
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Old 05-07-2007, 08:00   #8
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This is how Im thinking

take a big loan out or get a used one! I would a shallow draft.
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Old 05-07-2007, 09:12   #9
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Several books, and numerous web articles have been published on the subject.
Ie:
Desirable and Undesirable Characteristics of the Offshore Yachts
by Stephen L. Davis (Author), John Rousmaniere (Editor)
ISBN: 0-393-03311-2
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Old 05-07-2007, 13:48   #10
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<nod>

There are many different attempts to define "the best boat", or even "things to consider when looking at boats." (One oft-forgot consideration is displacement as a *desirable* characteristic; you'll find a close correlation in used boats as priced per pound rather than per foot.)

Each boat is a compromise, and each boat owner/prospective owner has their own formula for valuing things in those compromises. Different boats suit different people. You'll need to decide what is more/less important for you.
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Old 13-07-2007, 09:26   #11
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Our Experience with Hanse Yachts ~ by Carlos & Maria SV “Rocinante”
Well it’s been 6+ months and around 3000 miles since we left Annapolis, MD aboard our new Hanse 400e… time for a report ...
... wish I could sit here and tell you how much we love our Hanse… but unfortunately, I can’t… from the day we took delivery, we’ve been plagued with problems… some small, some large, some annoying, and some downright dangerous ...


Read their full report posted at the SSCA Discussion Board :
SSCA Discussion Board :: View topic - Our Experience with Hanse Yachts
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Old 13-07-2007, 13:14   #12
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I can't tell you how many new boat owners I have come across that are having serious problems with their $750k - $1.5M dollar vessels. Most of these people don't have a clue how to fix the problem because they don't know the boat.

I don't know about you guys, but I'll take my paid-for 20yo refit boat any day over most any of the newly manufactured tubs...short of an Oyster.
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