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Old 17-02-2011, 02:45   #1
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Lemsteraak and Zeeschouw Type Boats for Cruising ?

I have been looking at different types of boat and was wondering if anyone had any experience with either of these types.

The Lemsteraak


And the Zeeschouw:


And if they would be capable of cruising (pacific coast, possibly blue water)?
I never thought of flat bottom boats as being particularly seaworthy but I was reading about the New Zealand sailing scows making regular trips across the Tasman and that got me wondering about scow type boats.

Thanks
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Old 17-02-2011, 09:30   #2
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These are both Dutch traditional boats. The Lemsteraak is a design originating in Lemmer, in the Dutch province of Friesland and it's design is for inland waters. The Zeeschouw is a design built all around the IJsselmeer in Holland, after a dike made this an inland water too. The IJsselmeer is a big lake but not a sea.

I have seen both designs do short coastal passages but wouldn't recommend any offshore trips.

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Old 17-02-2011, 10:18   #3
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I love those boats and I have an old book full of the traditonal Dutch types. I'm not sure these boats would have the ultimate stability you might want for offshore work. These types evolved in areas where draft was severly restricted. I'm nt saying you couldn't do it Im just saying you'd need to be aware of the stability limitations.
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Old 17-02-2011, 11:20   #4
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Thanks for the replies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bob perry View Post
...I'm not sure these boats would have the ultimate stability you might want for offshore work.... I'm nt saying you couldn't do it Im just saying you'd need to be aware of the stability limitations.
If one was to build one of these would it be possible to add bilge keels and some ballast to the design to improve things for offshore work?
I guess what I like about these boats it the huge interior for a given length. and am curious if that is possible in a n offshore boat or if the two are exclusive.
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Old 17-02-2011, 11:42   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben M-P View Post
Thanks for the replies.



If one was to build one of these would it be possible to add bilge keels and some ballast to the design to improve things for offshore work?
I guess what I like about these boats it the huge interior for a given length. and am curious if that is possible in a n offshore boat or if the two are exclusive.
You'd probably be better off with a full shallow keel similar to the Maurice Griffith Waterwitch with Leeboards Design... if you wanted there the option of fitting bilge plates and doing away with the boards... the beam may make self righting a 50/50 chance unless you went for a short mast rig... might give you that vital 10%..
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Old 17-02-2011, 11:56   #6
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Ben:
Not really. The problem is the wide and shallow hull form. It gives these boats great initial stability but low ultimate stability. Adding ballast would help but now you have strayed from the parent model. You would need to know how much ballast they carried originally and if they carried balllast. My book, HOLLANDSE JACHTEN VAN DE TOEKOMST I, seems to show that very few of these types were ballasted at all. I don't read Dutch and most of the drawings are cryptic when it comes to consruction details so I could be wrong. I know they were massively built. If the type you like carried ballast in the bilge, yes, then you could add bilge keels or a single keel and put the ballast lower. But that still does not overcome the lack of ultimate form stability.
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Old 17-02-2011, 12:17   #7
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I have had discussions with John Welsford (local designer) along similar lines (sailing barges) but he chose to start with a fresh sheet of paper, came up with a design with enormous interior volume, sails as well as or better than your average white sloop, and about 40% the price.
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Old 17-02-2011, 12:25   #8
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How could one improve the ultimate stability if one was designing a boat with similar dimensions (interior space, length) but was not as concerned about staying true to type or maintaining the extreme shoal draft capability?

Would adding a deeper V to the hull and corresponding amount of ballast improve things?
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Old 17-02-2011, 12:37   #9
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Sure, but then you have an entirely different boat. It would be possible to preserve the aesthetic character of one of the Dutch boats and do a new hull but the new boat would be a hybrid. That's not a bad thing. Look at all the boats, some that I did, that were labelled "Colin Archer" types when in fact the only thing they had in common with Colin Archer's designs were some various aesthetic touches and points on both ends.
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Old 17-02-2011, 12:52   #10
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Ben... from what I've read and seen of them... would not a SkipJack suit you just as well... seems they have things in common... apart from the chines..
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Old 17-02-2011, 13:17   #11
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61:
SkipJacks suffer from the same stability issue.
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Old 17-02-2011, 13:28   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob perry View Post
61:
SkipJacks suffer from the same stability issue.
I know Bob.. just thinking there's similar options closer to home that are/can be just as pretty... did they not use to ply the Eastern seaboard trading... saw a 48ftr near NY a coupla flusher years back that quite tempted me...
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Old 17-02-2011, 13:42   #13
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I hear you. They are marvelous boats. We don't see any out where I live.
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Old 17-02-2011, 13:53   #14
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Thanks for all the help.

Does anyone know of a design that has the large interior/length ratio like these but and good stability?
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Old 17-02-2011, 13:57   #15
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I should add that I am thinking about a Chinese lug rig so (from what I understand) a wider lighter hull is a good thing as long as it is seaworthy.
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