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Old 26-05-2011, 10:15   #1
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Learning During the Selling Process

As some of you might know, we are selling our Westerly Fulmar. We had our first offer this week, and it came in at 30% less than our asking price. The buyer was unwilling to budge much from that at all. I am trying to look a this as objectively as possible. We have done a TON of work to the boat over three years - and the installed equipment - parts for upgrades total over $15k on a boat we are asking $29k for. This does not include Maintenance, or installation for any of it.

Basically, we have set the boat up for cruising, with much of the needed gear. Arch, solar panels, refer, battery monitoring, running rigging, LED lights, NEW AC panel, Water heater, prop,etc etc. We have revamped the boat cosmetically, new cushions, exterior paint, etc. The boat looks really good overall. The last cosmetic project we did not complete, would be to replace the headliner - we redid the overhead panels, but not the vinyl on the cabin sides, etc.

So it seems what this potential buyer did was to knock off a big chunk off of his asking price, because that is what buyers do, and then an additional big chunk equal to the cost of redoing all of that headliner professionally.

I am thinking we could re-do the vinyl, and increase the boat price accordingly. What do you all think of this?

Here is a thread with the listing info: http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...2-a-57721.html

Chris
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Old 26-05-2011, 10:25   #2
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Re: Learning During the Selling Process

is a buyers market--the more ye put into the boat, the less you get back. have fun and goood luck in selling for what ye want to get.
yes, i still have a boat for sale. wont sell for what i want -- i removed it from market.
this market will not support the asking prices-- mebbe a different area of world might help.
i put 15k into my for sale boat and wont even get the price i bought her for.have fun finding this out. it will come to ye in time, unless you are very very lucky to find the exact buyer that boat needs. could take years -- could take days.
goood luck.
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Old 26-05-2011, 10:36   #3
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Re: Learning During the Selling Process

Adding up your investment and costs has nothing to do with the selling price. Accept the offer, make a counter, or reject it. It's much more a choice than a calculation.
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Old 26-05-2011, 10:48   #4
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Re: Learning During the Selling Process

As someone who has spent the last few months actively selling my boat and then buying another one, I think I can comment here.

It is indeed very much a buyers market and they know that. The trick is to factor in this 'bargain discount' into the asking price in the first place. ie, you want $29k roughly so ask 34-5. If the boat's any good, which it sounds like it is, then you'll still get roughly the same enquiries and the buyer can feel like he's got a good deal by knocking 5k off. If you get any more, it's a bonus.

The days of getting pretty much the asking price are gone, people expect a 'deal'. I ended up dropping the original price for my flybridge by 10k but I had factored this into the original price and so actually still ended couple of grand up on what she has cost me overall.

However, another thing to consider is the old saying 'something is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it'. How long had it been on the market before you got this offer? If it was a while then you have to consider what is more valuable to you, selling the boat at that price or waiting a while, possibly until next year, to get the price you want. If you're selling to get something else then it's worth considering accepting it because A, you may loose the rest of this year waiting for another buyer and B, you will be able to find something else that has also had to settle for a big discount as well, thereby wiping out the loss on the first one.
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Old 26-05-2011, 11:04   #5
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Re: Learning During the Selling Process

I thought we had done that. The boat is priced at least 25% less than other Fulmars, the trouble being that they are in Europe, not the US. I guess we are competing against lesser built, non- Lloyds certified boats that have more room below, and a wheel for those that feel the need to have a wheel on a 32 foot boat.



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...
The trick is to factor in this 'bargain discount' into the asking price in the first place. ie, you want $29k roughly so ask 34-5. If the boat's any good, which it sounds like it is, then you'll still get roughly the same enquiries and the buyer can feel like he's got a good deal by knocking 5k off. If you get any more, it's a bonus.
.
Also, I know that costs CAN have very little to do with what something is worth. But each upgrade we installed did add value to the boat, not at the 100% level to be sure, but something is added. Perhaps we should remove some gear, sell it or use it ourselves?
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Old 26-05-2011, 11:08   #6
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Re: Learning During the Selling Process

I know what you're saying but there is another way to look at it. Adding extra equipment / features may not increase your boats value in money but it sure as hell should increase it's 'sellability'. Therefore, people looking at your boat along with a few other similar craft, should be more likely to buy yours and in this market, a sale is a sale.
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Old 26-05-2011, 11:12   #7
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Re: Learning During the Selling Process

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Originally Posted by witzgall View Post
...Also, I know that costs CAN have very little to do with what something is worth. But each upgrade we installed did add value to the boat, not at the 100% level to be sure, but something is added. Perhaps we should remove some gear, sell it or use it ourselves?
I would not do that.

Back a few life times ago when I ran a used car department, we would often add accessories to cars.

They would not sell for more, but they would sell faster, and closer to the asking price. Simply put, when a buyer is looking for a product in a size and price range, condition comes first, but the "extras" that are included can make the difference between selling your boat or someone else selling a similar one (not necessarily the same make/model).

JMHO
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Old 26-05-2011, 11:14   #8
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Re: Learning During the Selling Process

Pretty much exactly what I was saying as well, great minds think alike, avb3!

Another thing that I should have added in my post above is that to be fair, 30% is pretty cheeky no matter what. There are alot of 'chancers' out there, looking for someone who is desperate to sell at ANY price. I will freely admit to enquiring about a few boats that were well over my budget and putting in a 'cheeky' offer to test the water so to speak. The reasoning is simple, 'if they say no, never mind, if they say yes, RESULT!'

As it is, I ended up with a boat that was very fairly priced to sell quickly in the first place but I still got about 8% off even still.
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Old 26-05-2011, 11:21   #9
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Re: Learning During the Selling Process

To be clear, we have moved on from that offer. The seller stated his reasons for the low offer, they were valid in his mind but were more about keeping his investment low then anything about the boat (except for the headliner).

I think the advice about gear sounds good. The boat currently has a single display depth/speed instrument. I could include (but not install) Wind/depth/speed/repeater Navman instruments, which we removed from Alchemy. I also have a complete used windlass, but I am not interested in installing it myself - we have too much other stuff going on right now, and the Windlass on the "New" boat is not working yet!

So does gear that is included, but not installed hold as much, or close to the same benefit as installed gear?

Chris
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Old 26-05-2011, 11:29   #10
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Re: Learning During the Selling Process

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The seller stated his reasons for the low offer, they were valid in his mind but were more about keeping his investment low then anything about the boat (except for the headliner).
Yes, he's basically trying to close the deal by assuming you don't understand the market and using it to try and get a bargain. If you can afford to hold out, please do.


Quote:
So does gear that is included, but not installed hold as much, or close to the same benefit as installed gear?
I would keep the non installed stuff aside and maybe use it as a bargaining tool to close the deal, ie, "ok tell you what, give me $xxx and i'll throw in a brand new.......".

Again, it's all about making the buyer feel like he's got himself a deal and a 'free gift' is the oldest trick in the book!
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Old 26-05-2011, 12:01   #11
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Re: Learning During the Selling Process

Chris, adding loose instruments or a windlass isn't going to add value, but you could perhaps drop it into conversation with a potential buyer to keep the interest. The problem of course is a shed load of work to fit those instruments.

Feel your pain, that would have been snapped up here on the south coast, well thought of yachts this side of the pond.

I did keep a Raymarine C80 back off a previous boat because I was certain he was going to make a silly offer and he did. So he got his dream with an old GPS and we now sport a C80 on the yacht. I still lost out but the blow was softened.

Have the boat re photographed. Hide everything from the cabin less perhaps a bowl of fruit. Certainly loose the sails and arrange cushions with no creases and all perfectly aligned. Paint blue thing on engine top back to volvo green.

Do you have a video on you tube? Copy this one:

Refurbishment Video: Gigi | Boat Refit and Repair | Jeremy Rogers Ltd

Pete
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Old 26-05-2011, 12:08   #12
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Re: Learning During the Selling Process

Why not sail it back across the pond? I notice that asking prices for my boat are 50% higher in Europe than the in US.
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Old 26-05-2011, 12:24   #13
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Re: Learning During the Selling Process

The price difference is refected in the cost of getting it here, converting the electrics (assuming it's got a 110volt system) and then adding VAT. However, if the boat still has proof of original VAT being paid then it could be an option.
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Old 31-05-2011, 12:41   #14
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Re: Learning During the Selling Process

Why not donradcliffe??? I am with you. I already have a friend who is willing to sail with me to England...might be just the trip I need...two birds, one stone...We could sell her to a buyer who will really appreciate her and probably know the history of Westerly, and I would get a Big, Hairy Ocean Passage out of the way and feel more confident in my abilities...Would be kind of sweet to sail my first Ocean Passage on our first Boat...If it weren't for the VAT and the fact that it would be even more difficult mentally selling her then ;0)
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Old 31-05-2011, 12:53   #15
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Re: Learning During the Selling Process

I just read the email response I get whenever somebody posts to this thread - and then thought, yeah, buy her, whomever you are - - then I checked the name, and finished reading her post.

Damn you high heels - getting my hopes up!

Chris



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Why not donradcliffe??? I am with you. I already have a friend who is willing to sail with me to England...might be just the trip I need...two birds, one stone...We could sell her to a buyer who will really appreciate her and probably know the history of Westerly, and I would get a Big, Hairy Ocean Passage out of the way and feel more confident in my abilities...Would be kind of sweet to sail my first Ocean Passage on our first Boat...If it weren't for the VAT and the fact that it would be even more difficult mentally selling her then ;0)
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