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Old 31-05-2011, 13:11   #16
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Re: Learning During the Selling Process

Good looking boat....I wish you luck in selling her to a good buyer.

Post her on everything (if you haven't already done so).....Craigslist (relist almost daily), Sailboat listings, BoatTrader. Your own Website is also a plus....simply blast the market with advertising. My 32' Morgan found her new Prince Charming on Craigslist after kissing a LOT of frogs...
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Old 31-05-2011, 13:16   #17
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Re: Learning During the Selling Process

Sorry 'bout that Witzgall...and I would buy her if I hadn't already...

Patience Witzgall...someone who truly appreciates her will come our way...I will not be motivated by virtual money waving in my virtual face...that is just well, tacky...
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Old 31-05-2011, 13:20   #18
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Re: Learning During the Selling Process

Thanks hogfighter! Will do!

The frog kissing definitely gets old when it comes to selling houses and boats...and you are correct in the analogy!

As I told Witzgall on the phone today...I want to feel good about this...I believe that when a sale is a good one...most everyone involved wins...and you can feel good about it...
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Old 31-05-2011, 13:47   #19
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Re: Learning During the Selling Process

Take some wide angle pictures of the interior! It makes a huge difference to the space perception.
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Old 31-05-2011, 13:59   #20
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Re: Learning During the Selling Process

If you mean using a 'fisheye' effect, DONT'T!!

As someone who has spent the last 6 months getting details of boats to buy, I can tell you that most ad's that used this kind of pic were dumped. The reasoning being, 'if they had to do that to make it look decent, in reality it'll feel tiny'.

I've just bought and sold two boats and can tell you that buyers really appreciate honesty. There is no reason to use techniques to 'dress it up' or make it look bigger or better than it is. Most boats are not bought localy and people don't want to waste their time traveling to find it's not as described.

Turn all the lights on, de clutter and put a bowl of fruit or flowers on the table and when they come, they won't be disapointed.
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Old 31-05-2011, 14:08   #21
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Re: Learning During the Selling Process

All points taken...

Simon, Honesty is appreciated by the sellers too!

I am not a game player and I get real irksome to be around when I feel I am being manipulated...

Ah, Witzgall...selling a house AND A boat in the same year...you have a whole of ornery from my corner to deal with, don't 'chya?!? ;0)
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Old 31-05-2011, 14:34   #22
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Re: Learning During the Selling Process

We also recently bought and sold. We did a few things with the sale that may be relevant.
  1. The first is that I had the broker over-inform potential buyers. An early offer showed a couple of things that were surprises to me. I had a surveyor check them out and then gave both perspectives to prospective buyers. The result was that essentially no one who saw the boat was disappointed.
  2. We priced the boat with deductions already embedded for the defects identified. I told the broker to let buyers know that I wasn't going to be doing further deductions for any of those items so they shouldn't waste their time if that was the plan.
  3. I took a few things out of the boat that weren't attached and either moved them to the new boat or sold them separately. That included an unused asymmetric spinnaker, uninstalled bronze bow chocks, a dinghy and outboard and a Spade anchor. The net was another thousand dollars on the revenue side and a backup dinghy, outboard and anchor. After a season, I will probably sell one of the outboards.
  4. I ignored all the money I had put into the boat and simply priced by deciding that I was willing to sacrifice a potential of $3-5K in order to only own one boat and not risk having yard fees eat another chunk of dollars. It still took a while, but I'm OK with the result and so are the new owners.
As a buyer, I was more willing to pay close to asking price if the boat was the best of its breed and seemed reasonably priced than if it looked tired and seemed as though it was going to need a lot of work. The boat we bought was one of the higher priced on the market. However, it was the second to last hull made, had been very well maintained and upgraded and was in much better shape than the others we saw. My guess is that it's a lot less dollars to get it into the water in good shape than several boats we saw that we might have gotten for $20-30K less.

It sounds like your boat is one of the best around so your decision is how long you're willing to wait for a buyer. Priced fairly, you should be able to get away without dropping the price a lot if you're willing to wait. Priced too high to include that discount may limit the interest and you'll still be waiting.

Good luck!
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Old 31-05-2011, 15:09   #23
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pirate Re: Learning During the Selling Process

Well heres what they're asking in Europe... put the price up to $37K.... then play hard ball and reluctantly reduce for the lining by $7K...
The buyer has obviously been a CF reader...
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Old 31-05-2011, 15:18   #24
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Re: Learning During the Selling Process

I'm also buying and selling. To sell, I priced my boat 25% less than what I paid for it three years ago, even though I had added equipment and the boat was in excellent shape. I received an offer at 1% below asking and took it. It's a buyer's market.

As a buyer, I would not consider an offer of more than 80% of asking price, and there are two boats I know I can get for that discount (or better). I'm waiting for the check from my buyers before making an offer.

I saw a Tartan that I liked and told the broker what I might be willing to pay. He said "The Seller would never take that!" I then asked, "How long has the boat been on the market?" The broker replied "Two years." Well, two years from now it will still be for sale, and it's not my problem. Did I say it was a buyer's market?

As for the headliner, rip it out if you can. I can tell you that my wife views headliners as tacky and won't let me buy a boat that has one.
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Old 31-05-2011, 15:47   #25
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Re: Learning During the Selling Process

You dont usually get paid for what you add or do. (There are exceptions) Example: (before the economic turndown) Bought a popular boat (Passport 47) for $235k. Rebuilt the mast entirely, new riggin and paint and reinforcing etc. ($17k) Redid the teak decks, caulked, rescrewed, new plugs ($4k..a friend shipwright did the job!) Autopilots, electronics, new sails, chain, anchors etc..anyway the total was well over $50,000 of refit. She was perfect. Tried to sell her with a broker for 1.5 years and finally accepted....you guess it... the original purchase price (235K)! in a great economy. I have two other boats with similar stories... I have one I made a ton of $ on... it was a beauty that I bought as a fixer..put a bunch in and got lucky...
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Old 31-05-2011, 16:07   #26
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Re: Learning During the Selling Process

The reality is that it has been a used boat buyers market, and has only grown increasingly more so, for years. I don't see it getting better. Any of you cruisers see it getting better? You have an offer...not a good one by your definition, but an offer. A bird in the hand...
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Old 31-05-2011, 16:40   #27
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Re: Learning During the Selling Process

Very true and here's a true story that should reinforce that.

Last year, about October, a friend of mine was staying on my boat with me while he was looking for a boat for himself. A couple of berths down, a resonable Princess 46 sports cruiser came up for sale at €85k and he took a shine to it. He viewed with the broker and put in an offer for €50k. The broker acted almost as if it was an insult but put the offer forward and sure enough, it was declined. Apparently, the seller said he wouldn't take lower than 80k, so, my friend declined and resumed his search.

About a month ago, after an extra 6 months berthing fees, that boat finaly sold, guess how much for? Yup, 50k!
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Old 31-05-2011, 16:52   #28
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Re: Learning During the Selling Process

Chris,
Buying or selling a boat these days is, obviously, a pretty convoluted process. Before buying a boat recently, I probably considered a couple of hundred over the past 2 years, looked at about 50 and dealt on 11. Many of the boats I considered were snapped up before I had a chance to see them, so there is a market out there.

What stopped me from buying many of the 50, or so, I looked at was that they were "not as advertised", although I also passed-up some because I kept comparing boat prices in my area with those in the south-western U.S., where prices are much lower. Every boat I made an offer on showed serious issues when surveyed, which left me having to reduce my offer to a level that the sellers felt was unreasonable, but that I felt was reasonable for the market.

I discussed Zeehag's boat with her, viewed pictures, and she was firm on price. Two years ago I could not have pried that boat from her hands, "as is", for 2x the price. While, in retrospect, I wish I'd arranged to have it surveyed & given it more thought, I was looking for something with more gear at that point & didn't want to upset someone I respect by making an offer that might offend her.

I bought my boat for less than 50% of the asking price, which was less than 40% of what the asking price would have been a few years ago. It has issues that must be addressed and isn't well-equipped, so I figure I'll have about 4x the purchase price into her in refit, mods & additions, all realized before I signed on the bottom line. "Deferred Maintenance" would be a polite way to describe the boat's condition.

The point that I'm trying to make is that, while there are certainly "horse traders" out there, who will grind you regardless of what you ask for your boat, most prospective buyers are feeling the same economic squeeze as many sellers are and are trying to get the most for their dollar. As you aren't about to "give away" your boat to low-ball offers, I'd suggest that you won't wait longer to sell if you put a "FIRM" price on the boat, one that you're happy with. If your boat would look better without the headliner than in it's current state, remove it.

I sold off a bunch of 50s/60s cars & trucks in 2010, that I'd collected over the years. When I was taking offers on a price, I wasted a lot of time on tire-kicking grinders. When I made the prices FIRM, almost everyone that called asked, "How firm is FIRM?" I told them that until they were standing in my shop with a handful of cash, the price was the price. I had tacked a few hundred onto the price I was willing to accept & when I had a serious buyer I said, "Tell you what. If you take it today, I'll knock (the extra) off the price, but don't waste your or my time offering less." With this method, I moved all of my vehicles(11), and my shop & welding equipment within two months. A friend of mine who used to own a couple of car dealerships told me to sell this way. He said that regardless of the economy, if you are strong in your negotiations from the beginning, you chase away the grinders & tire-kickers quickly & find the buyer who knows the vehicle's value & can afford to buy it.

Obviously, very long-winded, but if you can't move your boat to a better market, maybe, the approach I've suggested is worth a shot.

Best of luck with your sale!
Mike
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Old 31-05-2011, 17:01   #29
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Re: Learning During the Selling Process

As a seller, you have to ask yourself "What's the cost of not selling my boat?" The extra storage and maintenance fees are only a fraction of the cost. First, if you had the money (instead of the boat) you could invest it. Second, if you are planning to buy a boat to replace it, you miss out on some excellent deals in today's market.
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Old 31-05-2011, 17:32   #30
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Re: Learning During the Selling Process

Chris/Gretchen,

We were in a similar situation when we bought our Pretorien (fortunately not trying to sell a house too). We had a Niagara 31 to sell and had put a lot in her thinking that was going to be THE boat for us. At the time we could afford to carry both for a while and it did end up taking about 8 months to sell her. We didn't try and get back all the improvements because we knew it was fruitless and we knew with the market we would take a hit. I'm guessing we lost 20-30% if you include the commission and the brand new dodger and interior upholstery ..@#$^%$! It hurt for a day or two but since then we've never looked back. Just glad it gone and no longer a worry. My advice, unless you HAVE to have a better deal, is take what you can get and move on with your plans. The Pretorien is waiting!
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