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Old 18-02-2011, 04:10   #1
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Larger vs Smaller Boat

Ive narrowed my search down to 2 models a 46 footer (2005) and a 52 footer, the 52 footer is 40k (Euros) more expensive but 2 years newer (2007), my intentions are 2-3 years extended cruising then sell on, the 52 footer has some great extras, aircon, heating ,generator , radar,bowthruster, the 46 has none of these, but if i went for the larger boat id have about 600 euros a month less cruising budget.

The smaller boat has EU tax paid, the larger boat does not, which would limit my use in eu waters, but i coud live with that.

The other down point is the larger boat will use more fuel and be more expensive in marinas, maintenance wise im hoping at their relatively youthfull ages i will have little major maintenance to do over my ownership period, so i can negate the greater costs for rigging sails etc, more the day to day fuel and marina/lift out antifoul costs, which should not be a huge deal over an extra 2 meters (6 foot).

I cant quite get my head over which to go for, smaller more spending money, larger more space newer boat aircon....mmm aircon... less spending money..

Can anyone suggest any other pros/cons to this indecision in my head..
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Old 18-02-2011, 04:39   #2
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How soon do you want to go cruising? How long do you want to stay out? Do you require the extra's on the larger boat. Which vessel is in the best shape? Which one speaks to you the loudest? Which one has had the best survey?
There are so many questions one can use to help narrow their choices. Are you comfortable handling a larger boat? An extra six feet does make a difference on those maintenance costs.
more room may equal more comfort and then again it may not, depending on how each one handles in roughish waters, and while docked or moored what the layout is.
Smaller may be easier to handle, and less expensive for docking etc.
Let us know what you decide it will be interesting.
Fair Winds
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Old 18-02-2011, 05:12   #3
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Personally I would choose the 46 foot yacht if tax paid, simply because you intend to sell it on aftwards and I suspect you will find a larger market for this size of yacht than the larger 52 foot one.

The difference in price is quite large so you could easily fit a new generator, radar and heating for that price and in two years time its still fairly new.

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Old 18-02-2011, 06:18   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete7 View Post
Personally I would choose the 46 foot yacht if tax paid, simply because you intend to sell it on aftwards and I suspect you will find a larger market for this size of yacht than the larger 52 foot one.

The difference in price is quite large so you could easily fit a new generator, radar and heating for that price and in two years time its still fairly new.

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Wot ^He Said
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Old 18-02-2011, 06:19   #5
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Well as soon as the house sells ill be ready to go, god knows how long that will take in this market, i have put the price down a little to try and speed things up. Ive not had any surveys done, only visited the boats for a personal viewing, i doubt there would be much wrong considering their age ,(id hope anyways), the largest yachts ive personally piloted was 41 foot but i did not find that any more difficult than the 36 footer i was used to and the bow thruster should make it a whole lot simpler!

The problem i have with the smaller boat is adding to it wont add much extra resale value so id rather just keep it as it is and just use it. RADAR while a nice extra i would not bother adding id love aircon, im from scotland and its cold here and while its nice to get out and have sun and heat its also great to have some coolness now and again, ive spent time in various warmer climes and yes you do adjust but its still great to have the option to cool down without jumping in the water and reduce the humidity, so the aircon would be a great plus point.

To either boat id add a watermaker, though the larger boat has much bigger tanks so i may be able to get away without one, the smaller boat id need solar or probably just a cheapo 2kw generator and toss when done they are cheap enough and compared to proper boat ones a fraction of the cost, now if there way a way to rig a cheap home based 240v aircon unit onto a small cheap land based generator without making a mess of the hull id be set....

Im hoping that buying a newer boat will reduce maintenance costs by a fair factor, ok i will have depreciation instead but less headaches.

As for the boats they are both mid to light displacement modern cruisers nothing fancy, i dont intend in rounding the capes . (a bavaria 46 cruiser and bavaria 50 vision (52ft)) . I would love something better but would rather have a bigger newer
production boat than older hallberg rassy or the like, i dont want to side track into models and this is better or thats better debate, more along the lines of would it
be better to have a larger roomier boat and less spending money or smaller
boat and more to spend on fun, i think it would come down to how much time you spend on the boat and how much time you spend off the boat.

I was looking at Elysium Cruising Cost 2010 costs pages
and they look like they spend a fair amount of their budget or repairs/maintenance
One of the reasons im hoping that a newer boat will have much less failures than an
older boat, im wondering if anyone out there on a newer boat can give a sample of
their maintenance costs?
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Old 18-02-2011, 06:27   #6
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Sounds to me that you really want the bigger boat..........so that's what you should get. Otherwise all you're going to do is sail around saying to yourself "I wish I had gotten the big boat"!
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Old 18-02-2011, 06:39   #7
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IMO... Unless you plan to take a hired crew to both run AND maintain the boat, the smallest boat that serves your purpose is the way to go. 38' to 40' is PLENTY large enough... Remember, once you're out cruising, you will have to dive on the hull for wipe downs, handle sails, fenders, dock lines, anchor rode, etc, on a regular basis. Mark
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Old 18-02-2011, 06:40   #8
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Yeah i sure do but on the other hand i could be sitting at anchor somewhere wishing i could go out and do something and have no money to do it , muttering to myself i wish id bought the smaller boat and had that extra 6000 euros a year to play with, the other option is wait another year or two ,save up more pennies and then go on a bigger boat with the same budget id have on the smaller boat, but then how long do you wait?
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Old 18-02-2011, 06:41   #9
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When you plan to sail long distances, a bigger boat has a tremendous impact on comfort while underway. I would surely choose it in that case.

cheers,
Nick.
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Old 18-02-2011, 06:51   #10
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Depends on whether you can live with the smaller monthly budget and the larger running expenses.

Boat B is Bigger and better (equipement) - likely related to being more expensive - the question is really can you afford to use it as you would want to?


The answer may be Boat C - smaller, but better equipped. If you are flogging a house in the UK, you probably have time to look around some more..............

Or offer the Vendor of Boat B..........EUR60k less (by the time you can buy might be close to the asking price anyway?).
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Old 18-02-2011, 06:58   #11
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I would go for the bigger and newer boat, the difference in volume, comfort and speed between the two is going to be worth the extra costs, as are those 2 years less use. I've done something similar, gone from 43 to 49 feet and wouldn't dream of going back unless I went to a different boat design in a smaller vessel. Once you see what a bowthruster does to your close-in maneuverability and how radar makes sailing at night or in low-visibility condition you'll realize their value.
Those 2 years might make a difference down the road, as in 2013 you'll be selling a 6-year old vs. an 8-year old boat.
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Old 18-02-2011, 07:04   #12
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I wont be single handing thats for sure nb the larger boat has 2 electric winches and im 110kg so fairly strong anyways, handling the boat wont be an issue
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Old 18-02-2011, 07:18   #13
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Houses up here in Scotland never went up anywhere near as much as they did down south, so arent as ridiculously overpriced and sell easier,we had less of the boom and less of the bust.

On a second note about boat buying in todays climate, just how much less than the asking prices would be a good starting offer?

I appreciate bow thrusters, ive used them before and its one thing i wouldnt live without on a larger boat, radar ive also used and appreciate its benefits,i worked on a fishing boat for a year in my youth radar was used constantly thoguh more for positoning than anything else, they didnt have gps back then.
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Old 18-02-2011, 13:39   #14
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Let me throw my 2 cents in .... I am a Bavaria fan (yep) ... I just bought the new Farr designed 45. Pending the survey(s) I would lean toward the 46. Although the interior of the Vision is like a condo it is not as well set up for offshore. Just my 2 cents .....
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Old 18-02-2011, 13:47   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevensuf View Post
Houses up here in Scotland never went up anywhere near as much as they did down south, so arent as ridiculously overpriced and sell easier,we had less of the boom and less of the bust.
We started the house selling malarkey in June, sold mid September and actually moved November. However the price was key. The estate agents valued over 250k, but that put us into 3% stamp and the buyers had different ideas simply refusing to give the Gov an extra £7k. So we had no choice to come down. Interestingly other local sellers followed us shortly after, so they are selling.

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On a second note about boat buying in todays climate, just how much less than the asking prices would be a good starting offer?
Bad news here, I haven't seen the fire sales you might have thought would occur in the current financial climate. Two possible reasons, firstly UK boat owners aren't hurting yet and secondly the pound to euro rate dropped two years ago. This meant that late clean UK yachts became real bargains for European buyers. Being a portable asset that's exactly what they did and large numbers of late clean yachts went to Europe. What is left is commanding a good price and unfortunately this is the market you are buying into. Sorry of it's not good news.

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I appreciate bow thrusters, ive used them before and its one thing i wouldnt live without on a larger boat, radar ive also used and appreciate its benefits,i worked on a fishing boat for a year in my youth radar was used constantly thoguh more for positoning than anything else, they didnt have gps back then.
Okay but when you come to sell having heating, genny and radar will be expected on a large yacht and 46 ft is large. Certainly will help to sell it. Worth chatting with some of the larger yacht brokers about this.

Good luck with the search, its an exciting time.

Pete
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